Right, it doesn't even need to be a bad environment. The situation might even be worse in a good environment.
Consider the team that has no dead weight at all. There is a normal talent distribution and everyone is productive.
Layoffs come around and the bottom 25% are let go. All that work needs to be distributed to the remaining developers. The best members of the team now have less time to work on the really hard, interesting problems because they have to pick up some of the boring work that still needs to be done. Some of them may leave because of this.
Nothing like looking at truck numbers for things that you know how to do but hate doing to motivate you to find a new job. I've left twice when we hit 2, because I knew if we hit 1 I'd feel guilty about quitting, and then resentful about staying.
It's like a bad mix of Musical Chairs and Hot Potato where nobody wins.
Right. The old adage - if you smell shit all day, check your shoe - seems to apply. If you think virtually every organization is toxic, then the problem probably lies with you.
It’s a spectrum, but yes most companies do a terrible job at prioritizing the development and well being of their employees.
Ask your boss to take a week long course that will make you significantly more productive, paid for by the company. What is their answer? 9/10 employers (maybe even 99/100) would say no.
I mean, one of the top posts right this moment on HN is about how employers are recording every single keystroke of their WFH employees.
One of my unfinished goals from a few years ago was to interview some personal trainers to ask how they do it. How they show up over and over and listen to the same excuses from new faces. What's the trick? How do you do it?
"The future is here, it's just unevenly distributed." In a trade where fixing things is a job skill, knowing how to fix things that nobody wants to fix (yet) can be demotivating, even aggravating. Does that make one toxic, or can there be pervasive problems that takes your industry 20 years (epochs in software) to adopt?
So if you have high standards instead of being content with mediocrity, you.. have a problem? Well, that kind of thinking most certainly would encourage people who want and can do better to leave.
"This is crap" is, for a lot of people, a way to say that this is utterly mediocre (aka. not good, and not satisfying).
>So if you have high standards instead of being content with mediocrity, you.. have a problem?
The OP was questioning the assumption that the vast majority of workplaces are the kinds of toxic workplaces described by the article and some commenters. Not mere mediocrity.
The account in the article and in some of the more negative commenters didn't fit the experience of the person you replied to, and it doesn't fit mine either. From my (limited anecdotal and not universal) experience and the experiences of devs I know working in various fields, I've seen some toxic workplaces, but they weren't very common and stood out.
I recall talking to (generally younger more emotionally immature) folks who worked at places I've worked. We had good pay, really good benefits, we were on a friendly team with management keeping a light touch. I was happy. They focused on flaws, complained about things like ending free donuts on Fri as though they were living under tyranny, saw things as generally hellish, and were miserable. I've personally seen just what the OP was describing in others. It's worth recognizing that you do get out of things what you bring to them, since not recognizing it is a recipe for misery. If you think everything is toxic, chances are you're bringing something to the story that's causing that.
Right, it doesn't even need to be a bad environment. The situation might even be worse in a good environment.
Consider the team that has no dead weight at all. There is a normal talent distribution and everyone is productive.
Layoffs come around and the bottom 25% are let go. All that work needs to be distributed to the remaining developers. The best members of the team now have less time to work on the really hard, interesting problems because they have to pick up some of the boring work that still needs to be done. Some of them may leave because of this.
I've seen this happen.
Nothing like looking at truck numbers for things that you know how to do but hate doing to motivate you to find a new job. I've left twice when we hit 2, because I knew if we hit 1 I'd feel guilty about quitting, and then resentful about staying.
It's like a bad mix of Musical Chairs and Hot Potato where nobody wins.
Right. The old adage - if you smell shit all day, check your shoe - seems to apply. If you think virtually every organization is toxic, then the problem probably lies with you.
It’s a spectrum, but yes most companies do a terrible job at prioritizing the development and well being of their employees.
Ask your boss to take a week long course that will make you significantly more productive, paid for by the company. What is their answer? 9/10 employers (maybe even 99/100) would say no.
I mean, one of the top posts right this moment on HN is about how employers are recording every single keystroke of their WFH employees.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23165579
Sorry, my shoes are clean.
One of my unfinished goals from a few years ago was to interview some personal trainers to ask how they do it. How they show up over and over and listen to the same excuses from new faces. What's the trick? How do you do it?
"The future is here, it's just unevenly distributed." In a trade where fixing things is a job skill, knowing how to fix things that nobody wants to fix (yet) can be demotivating, even aggravating. Does that make one toxic, or can there be pervasive problems that takes your industry 20 years (epochs in software) to adopt?
So if you have high standards instead of being content with mediocrity, you.. have a problem? Well, that kind of thinking most certainly would encourage people who want and can do better to leave.
"This is crap" is, for a lot of people, a way to say that this is utterly mediocre (aka. not good, and not satisfying).
>So if you have high standards instead of being content with mediocrity, you.. have a problem?
The OP was questioning the assumption that the vast majority of workplaces are the kinds of toxic workplaces described by the article and some commenters. Not mere mediocrity.
The account in the article and in some of the more negative commenters didn't fit the experience of the person you replied to, and it doesn't fit mine either. From my (limited anecdotal and not universal) experience and the experiences of devs I know working in various fields, I've seen some toxic workplaces, but they weren't very common and stood out.
I recall talking to (generally younger more emotionally immature) folks who worked at places I've worked. We had good pay, really good benefits, we were on a friendly team with management keeping a light touch. I was happy. They focused on flaws, complained about things like ending free donuts on Fri as though they were living under tyranny, saw things as generally hellish, and were miserable. I've personally seen just what the OP was describing in others. It's worth recognizing that you do get out of things what you bring to them, since not recognizing it is a recipe for misery. If you think everything is toxic, chances are you're bringing something to the story that's causing that.