Comment by rayiner
5 years ago
I didn't say the average protester was a Marxist. I said exactly the opposite: BLM contains a "majority of well-meaning people who simply want to eliminate police brutality and inequality."
But several of the BLM founders are, by their own description, Marxists, and that is a very different thing from happening to "find self-described 'Marxists' among" the protesters. People with lots of different views can happen to find themselves on the same side of any issue. I do think it's different when you're talking about the founders of an organization that is the de facto figurehead of the movement.
No it's not. There's no "founders" in the sense that you are trying to present. There's no organization that you join. You're pretty obviously implying that these protests are somehow linked to Marxism, otherwise that entire posts make little sense. I realize that conservatives always want to find some "leaders" to argue with rather than accept that it's a massmovement, not some top-down movement that has some sort of charter that most must directly or indirectly accept.
There is a 501(c)(3) called the "Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation." That organization created the slogan "black lives matter." That organization has leaders. They're Marxists.
> You're pretty obviously implying that these protests are somehow linked to Marxism, otherwise that entire posts make little sense. I realize that conservatives always want to find some "leaders" to argue with rather than accept that it's a mass movement, not some top-down movement that has some sort of charter that most must directly or indirectly accept.
I am not arguing that we should discredit the narrow goals of the protestors because of the ideologies of the BLM founders. In fact, I said exactly the opposite:
> I am pro-BLM... I think people of every stripe can do something to help finish the job of reconstruction.
But that's not what we're talking about. We are talking about a very specific quote from John Carmack upthread: "the statement 'black lives matter' is easy to agree with if you’re a decent human being." It is disingenuous to the extreme to suggest that one might not reasonably be concerned about the scope of that statement.
The organization didn't create the slogan. The people who created the slogan created the organization 3 years later.[1]
[1] https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jun/17/candace-ow...
The founders of the Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation are Marxists in much the same way that the founders of the United States were slavery advocates. That is, both statements are true, but somewhat incidental to the core idea.
If you reject the thought that the United States has slavery built deeply into its ideology, then you should award that same consideration to BLM and admit that the fundamentals of its ideology are not Marxism etc., but that Black people are fundamentally not given a fair shake by society, as you say.
This is leaving aside the point other posters have made, which is that Black Lives Matter as a slogan and idea exists outside this specific foundation. I don't think you can reasonably expect someone asserting "Black Lives Matter" to have made a complete study of this specific foundation and be in agreement with all its aims.
> There is a 501(c)(3) called the "Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation." That organization created the slogan "black lives matter." That organization has leaders. They're Marxists.
So? If there's a Yellow Vests non-profit started in France that has its own charter and leaders doesn't make the yellow vest somehow within that group in any practical sense.
What's your point trying to make this Marxist connection if there's indeed just some what you call leaders with Marxist connections? I mean you're saying that you're unsure if "black lives matter" includes Marxism?
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