Comment by renewiltord
5 years ago
> > If you want respect don't admit to supporting bigotry
> But I support free speech and free expression whether it comes from left or from the right.
Free speech doesn't mean I have to respect you. It means that when you start raving about the earth being flat or whatever, I can't shut you up. I can walk away, I can say "You're an idiot", and I can say "Guys, this dude is a flat Earther. Let's make fun of the moron", and then we can all say, "Hahaha! You're a moron! Neener neener" and so on and so forth. And you can do that to me.
I can even say "This guy is a flat Earther, don't buy his bread" and others can repeat it. That's freedom.
And if I do that I will, in practice, chill your speech because maybe you care about selling your bread more than you do about peddling flat Earthism. But that's what positive rights sometimes do.
And as someone with a strong view of individual freedom, I'd rather that chilling effect than any restriction on who I can speak out against.
Everyone has the freedom to bring mostly-negativity into the world, but that doesn't mean I have to respect them for it even when it's in support of issues I completely agree with.
Precisely. You don't have to respect anyone for anything. There is no requirement anywhere. As a free person, you can choose to disrespect people even if they do things society considers commendable. You can even express this disrespect. This is fundamental to the freedom of this society.
You don't have to respect anyone for anything, but it's a hell of a lot easier and a lot more inward- and outwardly-positive than looking for disagreement everywhere.
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> Free speech doesn't mean I have to respect you.
Nobody seriously cares about respect as much as about their freedom.
> I can say "Guys, this dude is a flat Earther. Let's make fun of the moron"
The sad fact is that you seem to only support freedom of express progressive ideas.
Consider someone saying "Guys, this dude is gay. Let's make fun of the moron". I guess you won't support freedom of speech for that person.
Read the context: it was about respect. I even quoted it for you. But we can proceed anyway if the conversation has shifted.
> Consider someone saying "Guys, this dude is gay. Let's make fun of the moron". I guess you won't support freedom speech for that person.
Oh dude, I support that like nothing else, but I will use my freedom of speech to absolutely shun that individual. I absolutely encourage you to admit to any homophobia, etc. That way I know to shun you and to ask my friends to shun you. It is my freedom of speech and expression that permits me to do that. Free individuals must have the liberty to freely associate. And from the liberty to freely associate comes the liberty to choose to not associate.
And if you want to speak up and ask for me to be shunned, I encourage you to do that. Because I believe in a freedom of speech and expression that is almost absolute.
You will never find me making laws that say that expressing homophobia or racist opinions or whatever must be outlawed. Say it loud, say it proud, you have the right.
Even if the constitution allows free speech, but practically if free speech is not possible, it is not freedom.
Note in the authoritarian totalitarian states there are no laws against free speech. And usually it is not government actors how punish you for expressing dissenting opinions, it is often mob and your employer. These states are not free.
So to some degree SV is not a free place, even if it there are no laws prohibiting free expression.
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