Comment by JohnJamesRambo
4 years ago
I hit 1993 and David Letterman came on and I’m awash in nostalgia for what seems like such a simpler, happier time. People liked each other. They could concentrate longer than three seconds. Dave and Paul are genuinely laughing and everything is all right.
What a fantastic website.
> what seems like such a simpler, happier time
I am regularly watching historic news footage (1950s and 1960s) from the archives of my local TV station. While the people are indeed friendlier than today (and much more eloquent), they don't seem happier. They don't seem less stressed. The general problems are the same. I watched a bit from 1961 about the growing problem of extreme weather events (they discussed whether the atomic bomb was responsible). Another bit from 1962 reported youth crime at an all time high and blamed alcohol, sex and movies. They showed 15 years old tricking themselves into student clubs in Heidelberg to consume alcohol and drugs. A few weeks ago, I watched a bit about the Hong Kong flu pandemic in 1969 (40.000 deaths in Germany alone) where they discussed countermeasures like quarantine and closing schools.
Also, a national TV station here shows "News from 20 years ago", where they just show the entire evening news from exactly 20 years ago. I have been watching this for years now, often while I am walking around the room. Just from the audio, it is often very hard to decide whether the news is from today or from the 90ies. The topics are often the same: politicians accusing each other of X, party Y announcing they now do X, violent conflicts in X, latest election polls, fear of war in Y.
When I watch these bits, I often think of these lines from the Joan Baez song "Hello in There" [0]:
[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k41y5Pd5NU0
I used to regularly dig through news archives from 100 yrs ago, and I found a lot of similarities with the news today. I totally get what you're saying.
I watched the documentary called 1968 on HBO. It made me wonder if people knew they were in the middle of one of the most impactful years in American history (MLK and RFK assassinated, sentiment shift regarding Vietnam, Nixon elected, etc). I then realized that 2020 would be viewed in time in a similar fashion. It was somewhat comforting knowing that we’ve pushed through tumult in the past, and that we’re still perfectly capable of doing so.
It’s so easy to lose the context of our place in history when there’s a constant stream of voices all pointing and screaming at the “now”.
Compared to having an actual dictatorship in Iberia (two), and later ETA/IRA/Far right bombings, the Gladio network, and then fucking wars in Jugoslavia, that's nothing.
I used to listen to car bombs near where I live.
My mother (who spent most of that year pregnant with me) certainly felt that that year was probably the worst she'd experienced.
Things were NOT simpler. The problems were different. When you are living them in the moment, they are every bit as large as your problems are now.
And fwiw, people in the 90s looked back on the 50s and thought “oh what a simpler, happier time.”
It’s a filtered lens you’re using and you are deluding yourself if you think that any time before you had it simpler and happier simply because they did not have “X” or “Y” that you do today.
How about date rape epidemics in the 90s? And women’s right and outlook for careers and equal pay?
LGBTQ rights? Hahahahahah
I mean, I can go on if you want?
I’m guessing you were a kid in 90s so things were simpler and happier for YOU because you did not have to worry about adult problems?
As someone who is not white, the thought of using a time machine and ending up in 1950s america is a terrifying thought.
What part of the world in 1950s would you travel to that you think would be better?
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Totally agree with you. But 2021 White America is pretty fcxked up too.
I think you're being a bit overdramatic.
Gay rights is the only civil rights related thing that's significantly changed since the 90s.
What rights did women not have in the 90s that they have now? Has date rape decreased in the West now? All I hear is that it's just as bad now as then.
The 90s like every time in history had unique problems. HIV/AIDS for example (still a huge problem, STIs are actually on the rise in the US). This time has its own unique problems the 90s did not (the rise of conspiracy theories, the rise of nationalism, the rise of the far-right, etc.) and those affect everyone.
Life isn't continual progress. Just because some things have changed for the better doesn't mean others haven't changed for the worse
What date rape epidemic in the 90s was there that didn't exist in prior decades?
At any rate, it is broadly true that the 90s was a happier time than present.
Today, people can't let you enjoy reminiscing about a period in time without bringing up everything horrible or sub optimal about that time.
It's a pervasive cynicism that wasn't broadly shared then. I was a kid in the 90s exploring AOL chat rooms, forums, the web, etc. It was a very groovy time. Lots of discussions about politics, but it wasn't toxic like today. There are sharp lines today and if you are right of center you're either being deplatformed or shadow banned or called a neo-Nazi.
I mean, you mention gay rights. AOL, the most mainstream internet app had a prominent Gay & Lesbian section and a chat room for folks to meet or discuss commonalities. Nobody was canceling AOL over it. It was just another interest group next to Sports, Video Games, Politics, Religion, etc. You'd wind up meeting gay people through some discussions on the various chat rooms. And we'd honestly debate about whether homosexuality was a choice or not. And in my naivete I took one side of that issue and a gay boy that posted in that vg forum took the other side. It taught me how to understand them. Today, if someone says something outside of whatever the prevailing dogma is, they are treated like they're terrible people. Experiences like that are how you grow as a person. And we cut that off at the knees today trying to make sure no one's feelings are hurt. But all that does is create resentment and divide.
> it is broadly true that the 90s was a happier time than present.
I do have some great memories from the 90s, but for a few years I lived in a town south of Chicago that was heavy in gangs where I would regularly hear semi-automatic gun fire, see the river getting trolled for bodies and lived next to a professional bike thief. My father's truck was robbed of tools, my bike was stolen, my friends were poor as dirt and I couldn't play in their yards because I am white and they were afraid their neighbors would beat the shit out of me or kill me, and one of those friends was in a gang (learned that 15 years later). I remember lots of good things, but my 90s experience wasn't all that pleasant.
White men. They get the destroying going. They feel that the world is their property, and everything in it. I’m not white, but interested to know where the White man ideology originated. Who told them they have to destroy everything that isn’t them, or at least dominate it.
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I felt this on 80s french shows too. Its as if 1h back then was longer than 1h now. It's super odd. People were probably happier deeply because all of the new spaces to play on, without much structure and productivity. Things were to be invented. Whereas today, TV shows are long term businesses who have to hold market shar, ensure the same thing every day. No time for stepping aside, laugh or listen.
Probably a difference in human and emotional education. Times were slightly rougher in the 60-80s.. people may have had thicker skin and more social skills.
All in all it might just be a natural cycle of sclerosis, not help by the internet amplifier.
ps YouTube suggested some letterman shows with meg parsont (a random employee working in front of the studio building) I felt Dave was a bit intrusive if not bullish on her. Made me feel conflicted, as I hold the dude and show very high in mind.
I wouldn't hold any celebs too high in mind. Dave is a funny comedian but who knows what he's like in his personal life? Lots of celebs are either assholes or terrible people. Rule of thumb: if you don't know them personally, never put them on a pedestal. Even then, don't do it.
He did assholery, publicly known too. Other than that he seems averagely balanced as a human.
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Not to mention liberal too with televised broadcasts like Le Narcisso Show
This entirely depends on when you were born.
For older people, the 50s and 60s were that. For others slightly older than you, the 80s were that.
For people younger than you, the 2000s were great!
Not to go off on a tangent, but I’m not sure that’s entirely true.
To me, everything changed with the internet, and especially with smart phones + social media.
I was an adult for a period before all of this, and definitely still feel those were much “simpler times” vs. when all these things came about.
Information spreading literally at the speed of light has changed everything. And not all for the worse, but it’s definitely been a double-edged sword.
very insightful. the secret is that everything just gets worse every decade
"In conclusion, there is no conclusion. Things will go on as they always have, getting weirder all the time" Robert Anton Wilson
Exactly. They were simpler for the parent because he was a kid during the 90s.... or just oblivious.
“Oh pity us, we got it so bad and they didn’t!!!”
I don’t think it’s being oblivious.
It’s being removed enough to forget the painful parts, but being aware enough at the time of the good parts.
The painful parts decay faster than the good part memories, but schooling pain lasts forever! So the crossover seems to be in people’s early 20s
Being objective about your personal history is really hard - but it drives a lot of decisions today, so it’s good to at least revisit those “good times” to put them into the relevant context (too few people do this!)
> What a fantastic website.
Wow... the first channel I landed was CBS from 1992 with coverage of the recession with the day labor for manual workers in Los Angeles with white guys next to Mexican laborers, and then as if that wasn't absurd enough the next segment for the 'Michelangelo virus' with John Mcaffee (the guy who I saw said he'd eat his dick if BTC didn't reach $1 million [0]) was pumping his anti-virus software in Santa Clara like it was the pre-cursor to Y2k or something. And then wrapped up with the breaking up of the Soviet Union's Red Army military disbanding to serve as local counterprts for now independent soviet satellite nations.
I'm not sure why I felt I was watching all of this like it it was the first time, even though I lived all of through this and saw a lot of it in TV first hand back then... it was incredibly surreal.
0 https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/john-mcafee-dick-bitcoin-bet...
Yeah, I had forgotten how much music sucked then though. ;-)
I want an 80's television, 70's television....
EDIT: Oh, I see the links on the site now to a 70's and 80's channel. Awesome.
https://youtu.be/9vyZK_CKkZo
The same era also had Ricki Lake and Jerry Springer. Definitely not allowed where everyone was patient and loved each other. I think your vision of the 90s is too rosy :)
Sorry I meant 'definitely not shows', autocorrect went on the fritz lol.
maybe ppl were happier in a sense that ignorance is bliss. they simply did not have access to information like we have.
We also didn't have access to targeted disinformation campaigns at the same scale. There's a lot of angry ignorance spreading these days.
A year after the Los Angeles riots due to four officers being acquitted of excessive force even though they were recorded beating a single black man on the ground?
I distinctly remember the damage to Korean businesses during this time (sacrificed everything to come to America and start business in dangerous low income ghettos and proceeded to lose it all without the government helping) which seems to be an after thought very much like the businesses damaged by subset of BLM rioters but the difference is the rate and speed of information that distinctly produce a very different state of the collective mind.
The reason 90s were much simpler times were because all we had was the TV, mainstream news media outlets, which we know today as far removed from actual journalism. You could turn it off and read a book or play video games (which also suffer from the curse of connectivity today and makes multiplayer a lot more toxic experience).
Fuck those Koreans. They came to exploit the poor people in an already oppressive system. They brought into the same hate and racism the whites were using. You guys don’t meet enough people from different backgrounds. Your “side” is all the same. White oppressor or sideline do nothings... yeah white
To be clear, you are saying you think the los angeles riots were a happier time (the original poster said happier) and that main stream news is not real journalism?
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Can you be more specific with what you're trying to imply with this question? Do you think that the Rodney King riots are evidence enough that what /u/JohnJamesRambo is observing is incorrect, that people weren't actually happier ~30 years ago?