Comment by jiggawatts
4 years ago
Stating that the UI consistency issues are due to backwards compatibility is stretching the truth to the point of outright deception.
Backwards compatibility is not what stops Microsoft from updating the GUIs for their own components. It is not the reason that the components that have been updated failed to carry forward 100% of the features of the components they're replacing, necessitating the ongoing use of the legacy components. It is not the reason reams of GUIs have gone untouched for 20 years. It is not the reason Windows now has at least 4 versions(!) of Performance Monitor, all of which are broken in at least one glaring way. (More on that below.)
The believable reasons for the GUI inconsistencies I've heard are:
1) API churn, because of which the UI teams did not have sufficient time to work on features versus playing catchup.
2) Bad system GUI APIs that are very difficult for even in-house teams to work with.
3) Unwillingness to take ownership of legacy code, with literally noone left at Microsoft willing to touch things like the ODBC connections panel or the Component Services snapin. People prefer to add new things instead of fixing or removing old things because it's "easier".
Actually, let's just stop here for a second. That last point explains the performance monitor views. I mentioned at least 4 copies, written over decades, by different people. Each new team has steadfastly refused to touch (or remove!) the old code, but hasn't replaced the functionality of the old code, so now end-users need 4 different versions to get things done.
These versions are:
1) The performance tab in Task Manager. The only GUI-based view that exposes some metrics such as GPU temperatures. Only shows a small number of fixed metrics.
2) Resource Monitor, which is opened from Task Manager. The only GUI-based view that shows certain per-process metrics, such as the names of files being touched, or per-connection network stats. Has permanent UI issues that will never be fixed, such as not using the system number formatting in some places, making large metrics unreadable as they change faster than users can count the digits. Similarly, the graphs take forever to change their vertical axes, making them useless 90% of the time.
3) The Performance Monitor MMC snapin. Totally legacy, with un-resizable controls that cut off text. Nonetheless, it is absolutely essential because it provides the only live GUI view of 100% of the performance metrics available in the system. It is also the only way to record metrics and view recordings. It is the only GUI for creating metric logging that persists. Etc...
4) The various versions of Server Manager's performance views, which are so useless that I've literally never used it. Nobody can get their job done doing this, we're all still using RDP to connect to servers so that we can simultaneously launch the three tools above. Why RDP? Because 2 of the 3 above do not support remoting.
I could go on and on like this for hours about how bad just this one aspect of Windows is, let alone the hundreds of other GUIs that have been butchered by bad decision making and internal NIH syndrome leaving a trail of half-baked messes behind.
Wait... did I say 4 performance metrics GUIs? I meant 5, because there's also the new Windows Admin Center, which was clearly written by people that have never had to diagnose a performance issue on a server. It's very pretty and utterly useless, which means that: Nobody will use it, and it will be superseded by someone else's half-baked attempt in a few years, 100% guaranteed.
This may explain why Microsoft have created so many email clients and none of them 100% work.
There are also Microsoft Entourage for Mac OS, few different apps for mobile, and at least two web clients, Hotmail and Outlook.com. Did I miss any?
Microsoft Mail is a product from the early 90s for DOS/Classic Mac OS. Microsoft Internet Mail was a logical upgrade, then added support for newsgroups. Eventually, after the success of Outlook in the MS Office world, it rebranded to Outlook Express. You could still see echoes of Microsoft Internet Mail and News if you looked hard at Outlook Express, its executable was called msimn.exe.
Windows Live Mail and Windows Mail were essentially newer, Vista-era versions of Outlook Express. It's the same program rebranded. Mail was bundled with Vista, Live Mail was a way to push the Live branding and get the newer program into the hands of those running older versions of the OS (WinXP).
Microsoft Outlook is a different beast with a different lineage, part of MS Office, and can be thought of the "pro" version of the basic mail clients bundled with Windows.
Yes, Microsoft could probably do with some branding discipline but the technology is quite predictable.
I'm not sure what Mail.app is, I always thought that was Apple's. Entourage was IIRC a native 'designed for Apple' PIM that eventually made its way into Office for Mac, eventually they decided to rationalize and have one client -- Outlook.
Hotmail / Outlook.com - Outlook.com, again despite the confused branding, is Hotmail evolved. Over time, Microsoft slowly merged its consumer (Hotmail, Windows Live) UI with its 'pro' UI (Outlook for desktops, Exchange Web) so that these days they are all pretty similar. These days you also have Outlook's mobile apps for Android and iOS and those too have a familiar look and feel.
I don't see any of these as a bad thing. Microsoft's history is linked to the history of personal computing and the ebbs and flows of market forces that shaped the PC biz and continues to shape today's technology. Given all the churn in this space, it's actually kind of awesome how their technology has evolved -- and will continue evolving, e.g. with all the focus on a web version of Office. But yes, their sudden shifts in branding is pretty sucky and they could do a lot better there.
But "none of them 100% work" is pretty harsh. No mail client is right for every use case (except emacs, naturally -- if it doesn't work for you it's because you haven't written enough elisp yet). But these are very widely deployed products and do work for a good segment of their target market.
Nice write up.
Mail.app is what I call the new "modern" app shipped with Windows 10. Mostly garbage. Spends most of its time and your CPU to resynchronize your mails.
My experience with these programs is that the predecessor can have feature X but the successor doesn’t but has feature Y, similar what OP described.
I’m always harsh when reviewing software. No need to be gentle about things that doesn’t work well.
Why Outlook does not work?
Tried it a year ago again and if I remember correctly it has tons of options but little customization and somewhat bloated mess. I like minimalism and I don’t like cruft, things like how does the list of mails work when viewing 100+ and navigating at high speed with the keyboard and applying actions work. Most email client fails this btw.
I think also I was annoyed over how one email list item was drawn, too big, thus reduces the number I can see at one time. Can’t remember if I found anyway to customize that.
I ended my Office subscription because I didn’t really like the feeling of the applications. It feels like they have put lipstick on a pig. Yes, there is a minimal writing mode in Word, but beneath it is the same old steaming pile that seeps thru.
But I’m somewhat harsh when evaluating software so maybe I’m missing something here.
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>Stating that the UI consistency issues are due to backwards compatibility is stretching the truth to the point of outright deception.
I am not familiar with Windows APIs but I can see this be the truth if MS made it possible for developers to plug inside this dialogs, like a printer driver would plug soem GUI changes in the panels , changing this would break a lot of devices.
Sure, and hence the logical thing to do is to create the new GUI side-by-side with the old one. That doesn't explain the non-extensible GUIs being left behind, or why the new uplifts are so piecemeal, or why they randomly leave out critical features.
Additionally, this is all the more reason why Microsoft should think through before they release a new UI frameworks and instead of releazing and then shortly moving on to a new one. I do not really understand why this cannot be thought through to make it long-lasting without running into alleged backward compatibility issues.
>It is also the only way to record metrics and view recordings.
Does logman not working anymore? If not, hasn't it been replaced by PS APIs?
I did specify that this is related to GUI approaches, not command-line tools. Thankfully the "churn" in the CLI is much lower, but not zero. Most users are happy about the the migration from the legacy CMD-based tooling to PowerShell, but the latest crop of tools are abandoning that and reverting back. E.g.: "dotnet", "bicep", "aks", "az", etc... are all going back to the UNIX-style parameters for consistency with Linux, even though PowerShell is a demonstrably superior shell, especially on Windows.
So even there, the unnecessary and counter-productive interface churn continues to the detriment of the users.