Comment by snarf21
4 years ago
Great, so what's the solution? What are you doing to fix it? Do you roll your own silicon? Do you grow your own food (we have no idea what someone could be putting in it)? Are you completely off-grid? Or are you as completely dependent on society writ large as everyone else?
Making holier than thou comments about everyone else being sheep isn't helpful or thought provoking. Offer an alternative if it is a bad one (looking at you Mastodon). So here's mine: we need to change the power of digital advertising. Most of the most rent seeking companies generate revenue primarily selling ads to get more people to buy more crap. I want a VAT on all revenue passing through the digital advertising pipeline. My hope is that if these things are less profitable, it will reduce the over-sized impact these companies (social, infotainment [there is no news anymore], search, etc.) have on our economy and life. People are addicted to to fomo and outrage (faux?), I don't that that will ever change but we can try to make it less profitable.
> Great, so what's the solution?
Seriously? Perhaps heed the warnings? Whenever Apple tightened the reigns, thousand of apologists came to their defense. I wouldn't even have minded if they kept their obedience to personal decisions. But they extended their enlightenment to others.
> Perhaps heed the warnings?
And then take what actions, exactly? “Guys this is trouble” is …fine, but without “and we should therefore do”, it’s just kind of spitting into the wind.
The warning: "Don't buy Apple products, their locked down hardware and walled garden is going to be trouble"
People: Ignore warning, buy iPhone
You: "Don't buy Apple products" isn't an action.
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The first ( and only ) way to solve any problem is to first admit it is a problem.
It doesn't even need to be an "action". You will have to be at least conscious of what is happening.
That is not what is happening, right now ( or before that ) many are defending Apple, and also an attitude of not "my problem". Writing off any warning as either pessimistic or conspiracy. Having some healthy dose of skepticism is somewhat an unpopular view in modern day society. Especially in Tech and America.
An action could and will be taken once enough people are conscious of what is happening. Right now the scale and critical mass just isn't there (yet).
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> And then take what actions, exactly?
Don’t buy or use their products.
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The solution is to go back to the original spirit of the Internet, when it was a set of open standards connecting people and organizations. Somehow it got forgotten and now we have a bunch of commercial companies giving you the same stuff in exchange for your privacy and who increasingly control everything you do.
The spirit of the internet won’t generate secure hardware or a transparent software stack.
Also, that spirit existed only in an adversary free environment. You may as well say the solution is for everyone to be nice to each other.
The solution is to build new technologies that are privacy preserving, transparent, don’t place trust in a central authority but are resistant to attack.
This is possible but nobody has built it yet.
You could run Mobian or similar on a phone from Purism/Pine/etc.
Problem is you end up with a vastly inferior hardware device that costs nearly as much as an iPhone.
I’m still waiting for my Librem 5 preorder.
Would love to hear if anyone is actually using a Linux phone and enjoying it.
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> The solution is to build new technologies that are privacy preserving, transparent, don’t place trust in a central authority but are resistant to attack.
I actually completely agree with this.
> This is possible but nobody has built it yet.
Doesn't mean we should stop trying. Here's my $0.02 - I've been building an email solution based on Self-Sovereign Identity ideas, still in progress, but check it out: https://ubikom.cc or https://github.com/regnull/ubikom
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Indeed. And, amusingly enough, most of the open standards stuff still exists too.
It's when we substituted corporate mobile transmission for the "internet".
It became, "Sorry, AT&T carrier, AT&T rules."
Dumping Facebook and its products as I and others have done is one strong step forward but people can't even manage this. It's deeply disappointing. Techno bears its seeds in rebellion but everybody throwing techno parties is coordinating on what is essentially an Orwellian state. Punks too, they're cozied up to this framework of oppression and can't see it for what it is.
I think people have a hard time seeing the ethics in the technology they choose to use. Maybe the next wave of net-natives will be able to rediscover that common thread of rebellion and resist. It's insidious, I'll give you that. It's not obvious what is being surrendered with every participation on these platforms but it doesn't take a genius to see clearly.
> Dumping Facebook and its products as I and others have done is one strong step forward
A strong step forward that gets nullified when Facebook buys the alternative app you're using, or when the app you're using does things as Facebook does.
You can propose all individual options you want, this is a collective issue that won't get fixed just by calls to individual action.
facebook is not going to buy my fediverse instance or my XMPP server. "they will just buy whatever gets used" gets thrown around too much as a sort of impotent defeatism. I don't see them buying instances on federated networks running open source software, and these networks are growing. we have to stop having this 2007 mindset that it is still okay to try to dump millions of people into a large centralized microblogging site.
Tech(or more specifically, cloud technology and social media) is the modern "opium of the masses".
What we have been doing would have worked if the majority would have followed.
Chose open standards, use and contribute to FOSS, avoid social networks, get involved in your local community, etc.
No need to go to extreems or complicated plans, corporations follow the customers.
But nobody did listen. Quite the opposite. I never had a facebook account, and now today people are boasting when they leave FB. But 10 years ago ? Oh we were the paranoid extremists .
Even today my friends regularly pressure me to get whatsapp.
The solution won't be technological, it will be in realm of laws and regulations. We are weak peasants and don't have any power over big tech, but we can change legal environment for them.
IANAL but we (via our elected representatives) can push a law that prohibit restrictions on execution of users' code on their own devices. Or we can split app stores from vendors and obligate them to provide access to third-party stores, like we do with IE and windows.
Also, it's completely doable to stop NSA/Prism totalitarian nonsense.
What we can do as tech people?
- raise awareness
- help people to switch from big tech vendor locks
- help people harming BT by installing adblockers, pihole etc
- participate in opensource (with donations or work)
- probably something else
This. You can't change mass behavior by individual pleas. Especially when the behavior generates outsized profits that can be used to advertise and lobby in its support.
The most pressing things that should be supported, to have the world I think we want:
1. Mandate open app stores. Your device, your choice. *
2. Mandate open browsers. Your device, your choice. The internet is fundamentally an extension of the OS at this point, so an free (as in speech) connection choice is a requirement for an open OS. *
3. Mandate open apps. Your device, your choice. Installing unsigned apps can be warned, but not prohibited (outside of enterprise devices).
4. Mandate configurable tracking. Your device, your choice. There must be a clear option to disable all tracking, along with an API / payment ecosystem for apps to detect this and request alternative payment. I.e. "free if advertising on + $5.99 if advertising off".
5. Mandate right to repair. The manufacturer must provide necessary technical specifications (hard or soft) for a base level of modification and repair. If the manufacturer no longer supports the device, everything must be released to the public.
* Selection must be offered at time of device setup. Installing alternatives can be warned, but not prohibited (outside of enterprise devices).
Lawmakers are more likely to enforce the direction this discussion is objecting to.
I agree, but we can elect different lawmakers. Let's push Louis Rossman to congress for example. I checked, his congressional district is represented by someone named Jerry Nadler, who's been sitting there since 1992 and (I'm pretty sure) is out of touch of his constituents since late 1990's.
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Do ANYTHING.
Buy a feature phone or a phone from a vendor who doesn't have this power.
Switch to Linux.
Stop buying from companies that abuse you.
Elect politicians who care about your rights.
You know what's not helpful? Attacking the messenger, regardless of how sanctimonious you think he is.
https://prism-break.org/en/ is a great start. in the absence of strong regulatory oversight, personal defense is a good measure.
> Great, so what's the solution?
I'd argue: avoid using proprietary networks, avoid vendor lock-in with software and hardware, and use hardware that one is allowed to use their own software on. Champion using open and federated protocols for social tools.
I think solutions exist, but honestly, it isn't easy.
> Making holier than thou comments about everyone else being sheep isn't helpful
I would offer the GP comment isn't necessarily a holier than thou comment, it's a comment of frustration. Frankly, I feel the same frustration.
It's tiring to hear snide remarks of "ohh yeah, we can include you for something because you don't have an iPhone". Hell, I have openly heard, even on this forum, that people don't include folks on social conversations with EVEN THEIR OWN FAMILY because of the dreaded "green bubble". (FYI, MMS is entirely done over HTTP and SMS! How is Apple's MMS client so bad that it can't handle HTTP and SMS?).
Or there is the "why don't you have WhatsApp/Facebook/Instagram/etc." and people think your some sort of weirdo because you don't want to use those networks.
So to be honest, when I see something like that, I think "Well I'm not surprised, this is what happens when you are locked out of your own hardware".
> What are you doing to fix it?
While GP may not be doing anything, others are helping and actively working for alternatives. For example, I have been working to get the Pinephone to have MMS and Visual Voicemail support so I can use it daily. I an very fortunate to work with a lot of very talented and motivated folks who want to see it succeed.
It's incredible how people are going to blame absolutely everything on ads. We're talking about a company for which ads are only a small part of their revenue doing something following government pressure, and somehow ads are the problem.
How about not supporting it as a start? Approximately half the country, and a majority of tech workers, were happy with #4 and in fact encouraging it.
What am I doing to fix it? Nothing!
I'm dependent, just as you say, and have no illusions about that.
Getting into this situation wasn't my decision (it was a collective "decision" of our society), and getting out of this won't be due to anything I'll personally do either.
The only difference between me and the average joe is having understood that we have a problem earlier than most.
I bought a pinephone recently, that's one fairly simple way to prevent corporations from scanning your life.
Pretty cheap, too.
> Great, so what's the solution? What are you doing to fix it?
Nothing, because my phone is rooted Android.
With outdated Linux kernel, non-updatable and closed.