> russian people chose to live under dictatorship, now they face the consequences of their own doing
Just like North Korean people chose to live under dictatorship? Do you honestly think that Putin won all his elections fairly, especially with all his opponents (including Navalny) suddenly getting charged with random bogus crimes every single time elections come up, which just coincidentally leaves them locked up in jail and unable to run for presidency?
A significant chunk of Russian population isn't completely brainwashed, given protests have been massive over the past decade, and despite the consequences always being brutal. Yes, I do have relatives living in Russia, and from what they told me they have witnessed, the violence against protestors has been way more excessive than what was shown on the news here (let alone russian news, which try to not cover it at all, aside from a passing mention). The fact that they got over 1.5k+ arrested a couple of days ago alone tells volumes, and that's just official estimates from last week. The real numbers are, I wager, much higher than that by now.
P.S. No, I am not against sanctions or SWIFT disconnection. Clearly, as we can see now, those were needed to push the Russian economy in the direction that would be more conductive for Russia agreeing to finally consider negotiating ceasefire and feel the weight of the consequences. Namecheap terminating user account services in Russia? That doesn't affect the Russian economy even in the slightest and just punishes regular people who already are scrambling due to their own emergency plans and assisting others. Which is evidenced by a lot of replies in this thread from those in that exact situation.
Right, and trying to unseat Putin has historically meant prison or death to its citizens.
We can support Russians to create political change, without hardening them to feel like perhaps yes the rest of the world is against them.
This is about Putin and Russian elite who support him.
Frankly, the fact Trump is still not in prison and probably running again doesn't say much good about US democracy and justice.
Indeed his last foreign blackmail was against Ukraine regarding sale of the Javelin weapons they now desperately need.
Isn't it though? Doesn't the ultimate responsibility for government lie with the people themselves? Don't they always have the option of civil disobedience or armed rebellion? Aren't they directly responsible for failing to take those options, thereby allowing their government to do harm?
People have zero choice in where they are born, and after that they have when they reach the age of majority (and sometimes earlier) still zero control over where the rest of their family lives and not everybody is made to be an immigrant.
I hear this a lot and I always wonder which country would you choose to be born in and why? Because there is something wrong with almost every country, and the causes usually lie well in the past. At the same time people do have agency, but for many the price to pay is too high and so they move to apathy or wilful ignoring of what is happening around them. I've seen this first hand. The peer pressure to keep your head down and to keep your mouth shut lest you get the people near to you in trouble can be enormous and that's the first barrier you need to contend with before you get to deal with the billyclubs and the nightsticks, eventually usually jail and being beaten up, raped or even killed.
So have some respect, understand that this is not a simple black-and-white matter and understand that on the far side of the line you do have allies and that their life right now is super hard. Not as hard as the lives in the country that is being invaded so that's where the weight should come down. But hard nonetheless.
> Don't they always have the option of civil disobedience or armed rebellion?
Yeah, North Korean people are just too complacent and lazy as well, that's why they fail to utilize the option of civil disobedience or armed rebellion. I wish we had someone go and tell them this one little trick that they were not aware of. /s
That is not always an option. I think even in countries like US armed rebellion would be classified as domestic terrorism and suppressed violently by the government nowadays.
Please don't post like this to HN. We're not going to start advocating collective punishment here—that's the sort of thing that creates these terrible situations in the first place.
> russian people chose to live under dictatorship, now they face the consequences of their own doing
Just like North Korean people chose to live under dictatorship? Do you honestly think that Putin won all his elections fairly, especially with all his opponents (including Navalny) suddenly getting charged with random bogus crimes every single time elections come up, which just coincidentally leaves them locked up in jail and unable to run for presidency?
A significant chunk of Russian population isn't completely brainwashed, given protests have been massive over the past decade, and despite the consequences always being brutal. Yes, I do have relatives living in Russia, and from what they told me they have witnessed, the violence against protestors has been way more excessive than what was shown on the news here (let alone russian news, which try to not cover it at all, aside from a passing mention). The fact that they got over 1.5k+ arrested a couple of days ago alone tells volumes, and that's just official estimates from last week. The real numbers are, I wager, much higher than that by now.
P.S. No, I am not against sanctions or SWIFT disconnection. Clearly, as we can see now, those were needed to push the Russian economy in the direction that would be more conductive for Russia agreeing to finally consider negotiating ceasefire and feel the weight of the consequences. Namecheap terminating user account services in Russia? That doesn't affect the Russian economy even in the slightest and just punishes regular people who already are scrambling due to their own emergency plans and assisting others. Which is evidenced by a lot of replies in this thread from those in that exact situation.
If Russian people chose to live under dictatorship, I suppose Ukrainian people chose to live under invasion.
"russian people chose"
We don't choose the place where we are born.
Right, and trying to unseat Putin has historically meant prison or death to its citizens.
We can support Russians to create political change, without hardening them to feel like perhaps yes the rest of the world is against them.
This is about Putin and Russian elite who support him.
Frankly, the fact Trump is still not in prison and probably running again doesn't say much good about US democracy and justice. Indeed his last foreign blackmail was against Ukraine regarding sale of the Javelin weapons they now desperately need.
Trying to unsit Yanukovych also ment death. People were shot at. But this happened. This is a price of democracy.
And if you just stand by then you are part of the problem, like with everything.
> russian people chose to live under dictatorship
it's not quite that simple.
Isn't it though? Doesn't the ultimate responsibility for government lie with the people themselves? Don't they always have the option of civil disobedience or armed rebellion? Aren't they directly responsible for failing to take those options, thereby allowing their government to do harm?
People have zero choice in where they are born, and after that they have when they reach the age of majority (and sometimes earlier) still zero control over where the rest of their family lives and not everybody is made to be an immigrant.
I hear this a lot and I always wonder which country would you choose to be born in and why? Because there is something wrong with almost every country, and the causes usually lie well in the past. At the same time people do have agency, but for many the price to pay is too high and so they move to apathy or wilful ignoring of what is happening around them. I've seen this first hand. The peer pressure to keep your head down and to keep your mouth shut lest you get the people near to you in trouble can be enormous and that's the first barrier you need to contend with before you get to deal with the billyclubs and the nightsticks, eventually usually jail and being beaten up, raped or even killed.
So have some respect, understand that this is not a simple black-and-white matter and understand that on the far side of the line you do have allies and that their life right now is super hard. Not as hard as the lives in the country that is being invaded so that's where the weight should come down. But hard nonetheless.
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> Don't they always have the option of civil disobedience or armed rebellion?
Yeah, North Korean people are just too complacent and lazy as well, that's why they fail to utilize the option of civil disobedience or armed rebellion. I wish we had someone go and tell them this one little trick that they were not aware of. /s
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That is not always an option. I think even in countries like US armed rebellion would be classified as domestic terrorism and suppressed violently by the government nowadays.
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ah yes - because Russia has had an exemplary representative democracy since the fall of the soviet union
hatred of Russian people has spiked like crazy lately. I've seen calls to deport Russian nationals from the US even.
> russian people chose to live under dictatorship
Russian people are born under dictatorship and choose to live. There is a difference. See Navalny?
Please don't post like this to HN. We're not going to start advocating collective punishment here—that's the sort of thing that creates these terrible situations in the first place.
If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30506161.