Comment by steve_adams_86
5 years ago
Thanks for that, it’s really helpful to get more insight from people closer to Russia, the people there, and countries close to it. Although I can find a lot of information online, I find it difficult to find the experiences and opinions of people who aren’t from North America. Language is likely a large part of that - I’m sure many of the people close to this simply aren’t hanging out and communicating in English in the places I am.
Brainwashing is certainly a term that comes to mind as I learn more about this, but one I have a hard time using since it can seem sort of like a slur from here in Canada. The truth is though that it seems us here in North America are somewhat brainwashed to fear and resent many parts of the world as well, including Russia. It’s scary. As I’ve tried to make sense of this by asking questions or generally discussing the current conflict online, I’ve been attacked for being pro-Putin or a Russian troll several times. I’m nothing of the sort, I never take a side, and I do my best to be objective, but many of the people I live with here are furious if you aren’t laser-focused on condemning the war and Russia. I’m absolutely opposed to the war, but banging that drum eternally doesn’t help me understand it any better.
Regardless, you’re making a great point. Questioning the war would be difficult for any human being if they were raised in a culture in which it was justifiable. How many Americans supported the Iraq war which ended as an abject failure with very little support? All that changed was that people were forced to face reality. The war didn’t make any more or less sense from the day it started. It’s easy to criticize Russia from across the world, but they’re no different from us here in Canada or the USA in that sense. As you mentioned, it’s remarkably difficult to break out of the sort of cultural mould we’re born and raised in.
Thanks for the response. I hope the friends and family you left in Russia are safe, whether they support the war or not.
English is not very widespread in Russia and ex-USSR countries to the south. Even the IT crowd among me knows very little of the language (enough to read an answer on StackOverflow or write a badly worded commit message).
And now I know why it's not being taught more widely, despite the obvious economic advantages this could provide. You don't want the population to be able to speak to their 'enemies' or read news from the other side easily. It's pretty obvious now the mad lunatic has been preparing the country for what's happening for about a decade, and he truly believed when he talked about the 'encirclement' and 'sending nukes to Florida'.
I think you are right regarding limiting English teaching to prevent the population from consuming "enemy" media. Definitely also happening in China where they massively cracked down on English language tutoring two years ago. Probably due to the governments ongoing effort to ramp up nationalism and spread increasingly improbable narratives about current events and history.
"Definitely also happening in China where they massively cracked down on English language tutoring two years ago" - oh you really do not know How much the next two generations of China kids will be able to read in other languages!
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If it's any consolation, there's a noticeable difference in the framing of this war from the US side. The West is slowly waking up to the fact that Putin has been waging a war for years without declaring it. It is being framed in the US media as Putin's War instead of the Russian Peoples' War. I think many recognize that ordinary Russian people are about to suffer greatly as collateral damage in his conquest for glory. Be well & stay safe.
Trully Orwellian NEWSPEAK!
May be because langage is deeply tied to culture and sovereignety. foreigns langage are cultural weapons, just look how european countries are slowly but surely turning into a chimeric federation mimicing USA just by cultural war.
For exemple a simple brainwashing illustration in the west is the fact that Imperalism is synonym to weapons/war/bombs and all things related to military. While indeed the biggest treat and real imperalism is culural and linguistic.
Hollywood and affiliates are bigger treat than any US Battaillon into subverting and destroying nation.
And it's even more dangerous because im an active actor of my own subvertion, of my own languistic and cultural destruction like im forced to use English (not my native language to expose my opinion here)
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Thanks for the kind words!
Precisely. Imagine your area of knowledge is like a circle, you think you kind of get 80% of it in terms of worldview and subjective opinions. Now some random people come in and saying you are wrong and there is this other big circle which is in order of magnitude 100x bigger which shrinks your knowledge and understanding. Its very difficult to recognise that we might not be understanding all the things. But just being open for trying to get the other side helps tremendously. Even understanding the root cause of why perhaps people even think that way?
It's kind of scary... and we tend to block the scary things. Because well... its easier.
The issue in the conflict such as this is that it's never black and white. And if someone is telling you that you are pro-putin by just not condemning Russia without hearing your reasons or just blatantly attacking you - thats very short-sighted and personally I just end the debate right there, because its not up to my standards of rationality.
There are obviously now messages coming through condemning US and EU for their actions in various conflicts in Iraq, Syria, Palestine, Kosovo etc. And again, what is right and what is wrong? Never that easy to say - all depends on your personal context.
I wish we could have a conversation something like that: - Ok lets look at the claims: - Claim X - Claim Y - Claim Z
Alright, claim Y is not that simple, because remember what happened was A, B, C.
Ok valid point, but B is also not so certain because of G.
I feel like our world really needs more education on critical-thinking and meta-learning.
> There are obviously now messages coming through condemning US and EU for their actions in various conflicts in Iraq, Syria, Palestine, Kosovo etc.
However strongly I am angered and scared by the current attack on Ukraine, I am also deeply shaken by questioning my own views. If one nation can be brainwashed into thinking that they are saving Ukraine from fascists, and they do not know they are brainwashed and think the other side is brainwashed... what am I brainwashed into? I already know I was also deceived big time (I totally believed that lie about WMDs in Iraq), what else is there? And I know that it can be argued that "western media" is more open and pluralistic, but don't Russians think the same about their media?
After seeing Brexit, Donald Trump, Covid, now Ukraine... we humans really need to figure out how to improve our ability to converge on models of reality closer to what really happens.
Anyway, thank you for shedding some light on the views from someone closer to Russia.
Western media has almost the same amount of propaganda unfortunately. And in Russian media is a small amount of truth...
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> we humans really need to figure out how to improve our ability to converge on models of reality closer to what really happens.
It's a good idea, but people with power and money have an agenda, and their agenda is often not in sync with current reality. They want their agenda to be future reality, and suppress current reality to get there. Just my opinion.