Comment by jotm
4 years ago
Technically pretty interesting, but I'd never buy something like this. Had enough of encrypted BIOSes that you can only downgrade using a hardware programmer, and Samsung's Kox protection (actually also eFuse) which fortunately only blocks their proprietary garbage from being used ever again. I pay to own not get owned.
> I'd never buy something like this
You'd never buy a Switch because of this?
I hear what you're saying, and I philosophically have similar feelings, but I purchased my Switch to play games I purchased for said Switch. The Switch does exactly what I want it to do, and this technical limitation doesn't impact that.
Could Nintendo do something in a future OS update that I really dislike and will make me change my tune? Possibly.
But they've also built enough trust that I'll take that risk.
Obviously you are free to make purchasing decisions for your own reasons, but I don't fully understand the hardline stance in this context.
I'd never buy a general-purpose computing device that did this, but that's because I buy general-purpose computing devices to do whatever I want.
I bought the Switch to play Breath of the Wild and arguably some of the best games I've played since I started playing games in the early 90s, and don't regret that.
> But they've also built enough trust that I'll take that risk.
And subsequently extracted the most value they could get from that trust and goodwill: https://www.inverse.com/gaming/nintendo-eshop-closure-3ds-wi...
Games are art: if you disagree, consider that cinema is also art, and that the crassness of Michael Bay-style Hollywood films doesn't invalidate arthouse, the same way that this year's Call of Battlefield doesn't invalidate Papers Please or Monument Valley.
And if games are art, and art defines our culture, then consigning titles to the memory-hole in the name of profitability is immoral, so Nintendo's corporate stance is philistinian.
Respecting copyright is important (the software industry, our livelihoods, is built on copyright - and copyleft - after-all), copyrights aren't indefinite because it would be immoral to deny society creative-works because they're being held-hostage by rightsholders for a licensing ransom. And Nintendo isn't a solo-creator, who might have personal reasons for wanting to retract and un-license their work: their adoption of the Disney Vault strategy is entirely soulless and without merit.
I can't argue that Nintendo should be in any way be compelled build and maintain ports of old games for modern hardware, or even official emulators: doing-so is very expensive, but I do think that Nintendo should be legally restrained from continuing with their usual bully-tactics against people involved in game-preservation.
I don't think this argument applies to the switch personally. You aren't "preserving" a game that came out this year and is available in multiple formats, you're just stealing it.
In general I agree though. The shutting down of the old eShop is very sad. There are probably hundreds of digital-only titles that are going to vanish. I like the response of the video game history foundation. Basically, we understand they can't keep the shot up forever, but what are fans supposed to do if they want to play these games and there's no legal way to do so?
I guess we'll keep our 3ds's and hope we're alive when they enter the public domain.
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^ For better and absolutely for worse, I don't think Nintendo has ever made large user-facing changes to one of their consoles via a software update. The Wii never got an account system, and the Switch still hasn't gotten a web browser.
The one product that kind of evolved a bit was the 3DS, which gained (poor) support for custom themes and services like Miiverse. However, the UI remained basically the same since day 1.
I do appreciate the ability to buy a product for a specific experience, rather than rely on a company's future whims.
Nintendo blocks downgrades so that it's harder to use an exploit to run unlicensed software and pirated games. The former reason is inherently user-hostile, but it doesn't bother me nearly as much on a game console as on a general purpose device like the iPhone.
> The Wii never got an account system, and the Switch still hasn't gotten a web browser.
the PS5 also did this, but I think both systems are doing it in the pursuit of preventing people from easily jailbreaking/exploiting webkit. It can still be done via DNS trickery and finding an http:// link within a game (some game cartridges with 0 updates have them).
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Precisely, I just don't buy closed down stuff unless I absolutely have no other choice.
I don't care how good the games are, they're ultimately entertainment, which is at the very bottom of the list when it comes to spending. I did pay for MMOs that turned into garbage after a while, which only reinforced this "hardline" stance, I guess.
Hell, I've hacked my ISPs ONT, the piece of shit wouldn't let me set it to bridged mode or even change the Wifi name/password. Couldn't care less that it's against the terms. There's things that people must compromise on all the time when it comes to personal freedoms - in this case, I'm not going to even if it's illegal.
They'll march me off to war if need be, but God forbid if I upset some company's marketing plan or bottom line.
So perhaps a different way to frame this then is that the Switch is a product that was not made for you. And that’s ok.
I don't know really how to argue this here, but there is no such thing as a switch. It's a general purpose computer, implemented on a very specific set of hardware, restricted in its use by software whose only purpose is to maintain the illusion that a switch is a thing.
Do these things not exist?
- My LG Smart TV
- A TI-84 calculator
- The Peloton (exercise equipment)
Are you trying to argue that because the Switch uses components also used to build general purpose devices that this somehow implies some kind of general purpose “identity” on all derivative devices and an expectation that somehow every product should be more clear that “well actually, this product doesn’t exist because it has a CPU and a screen”?
I’m truly grasping trying to understand your argument here.
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If we are arguing “it’s a Turing Machine!” Then you could argue that WiFi light bulbs are
> implemented on a very specific set of hardware, restricted in its use by software whose only purpose is to maintain the illusion
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I'm also one of the people who ultimately decided not to buy a switch (despite wanting to) because of nintendo's aggressive and misguided notion of ownership. There are other options that doesn't involve me betraying my principles and financially rewarding those who trample on my rights.
Now that the steam deck is out, I'm glad I did.
Too bad Nintendo produces some of the most popular game franchises like Pokemon or Zelda, and the only way to play them is to buy their hardware. I used to resist buying a Switch, but Breath of the Wild was such an amazing game that I had to get a Switch myself. And to be honest, other consoles are locked down in the same manner. Probably the most open "console" one could get right now is an x86 PC.
Yuzu is a Switch emulator for computers https://github.com/yuzu-emu/yuzu
Skyline is a Switch emulator for android https://github.com/skyline-emu/skyline
Both still require an actual console for actually making backups of your games.
I don't know about Skyline, but for Yuzu it's trivial to download prod.keys and nsp/xci of every game and play anything without paying anyone a dime.
> Probably the most open "console" one could get right now is an x86 PC.
Yes, and it's called the Steam Deck. It will be interesting to see how it affects the console industry over the coming years.
I agree.
I used to worry more about DRM, at least when it came to books.
These days, it is all about convenience. And the realization that I'm not going to live forever, and how many more times am I really going to read this particular book. Because that's what it is all about. There is some (not large) risk I will loose access to my Amazon account, or Google, or whatever. But for most books, if I get a couple reads out of them, that's practically all the value to be extracted for me.
Because of DRM, there is some small chance that I will loose access to a book that is truly a classic, one that deserves to be read repeatedly. In that case, it is OK to just buy it again in some other format, and give the author a little more money (yes, I know not all of the book's sale price goes to the author in most cases).
Some of my most favorite works I have purchased multiple times, and I don't regret it.
It is the same for games. If you want an exemplary open-world experience, you get a Switch, and buy Breath of the Wild. You then experience it (over months or however long you want to play it) and then it is over. There will probably be something else that will capture your attention next year anyway.
If, ten years from now, you really want to play BotW again, and you don't have a Switch, I'm sure buying a used one would work fine. Or else get the current-gen console, and buy the heavily discounted version on that.
>There is some (not large) risk I will loose access to my Amazon account, or Google, or whatever.
I think people significantly underestimate what it would take to lose access to their entire library or digital identity. The wake up call for me was having my access to Youtube revoked because I watched a livestream of Ukraine coverage. I'm assuming all of the stream viewers (helpfully enumerated in the "who's watching list") got mass reported.
For Amazon, this could be as simple as someone calling up your bank and managing to convince a service representative to charge back a few items. That's a pretty much one-way trip to losing your library for good.
I'd like to be able to add modifications to the best games / content that I return to over and over again. Now that I'm older and have money, for some of them I might be willing to pay 10 times just to be able to have it more open to modding. For a tiny minority maybe even 100+ times, if I ever get to be rich enough to retire early and still want to retro-game all day. It satisfies the desire to play an enjoyable game and the desire to tinker.
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I agree. I think Nintendo makes fantastic games but I don't like the idea of consoles. They'll repeatedly port their own games to newer and newer console but won't release the games for any general purpose platform. I don't want a pile of electronic waste growing under my TV to play my favourite games spread over hardware generations, I want to just have one computer that I can use as a computer and playing games.