Comment by samwhiteUK

3 years ago

I'm going to put my hand up and say I have absolutely no idea how an ISP works. He runs cables to each house in the area... now where does the other end go?

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samwhiteUK

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beezlebroxxxxxx  3 years ago

There is a very good Ars Technica article on how an ISP works. It traces the whole network, from submarine cable through to last mile into a house. It was written in 2016, but I imagine it's still relevant:

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/05/how-t...

  • digdugdirk  3 years ago

    Thank you, that was a great link for us uninitiated folks.

    Also another great plug for ArsTechnica (even though the main article is them as well, and I'm sure most of this audience is well aware of them) and the excellent technical writing they do.

Bloating  3 years ago

There are wholesalers that provide "dark fiber", then you buy data services from another "wholesaler". When I looked into it, dark fiber was available through some utilities and through a government funded non-profit. Data to light-up the fiber was available through several different data centers that connected to that dark fiber.

You still had to build-out the last mile though, and thats what will get you. You either need private easements, or be a registered telecom utility to use public utility easements. That last mile is $20k +/-, depending on your circumstances. If your semi-rural or less, there's ROI sucks. Hence, many smaller ISPs are wireless.

At least in area, there are already a number of wISPs, 5G is rolling out, Starlink eventually. and lots of gov't funding going to the big players to expand their networks (and drive the start-ups out of business.)

There some other business models out there too that look interesting. Underline in Co Springs, for example. They provide a basic tier of service, in order to qualify as a telecom, install the fiber and then allow multiple competing ISPs to use their network.

IMHO, any utility that has the benefit of government privilege should be required to allow competors to use the infrastructure that the taxpayers funded.

I'm waiting on one of you brilliant folks to defy the laws of physics to create a decentralized, wireless mesh internet.

  • thedougd  3 years ago

    https://www.segra.com/

    These guys have dark fiber right in front of my neighborhood. They service cell sites for Dish Network near me as well. It's interesting to look through their services. For example, you can get fiber service with layer 2, where you're responsible for adding your IP stack over top of it. Or you can buy at layer 3, where Segra is already running a stack, and establish mesh connectivity. So if a fiber is cut, you'll get another working path. Build your network over the top.

    Pretty interesting to understand what's available.

  • wyager  3 years ago

    Last mile subsidies are super weird. I was looking at a property in montana in the middle of nowhere that had no electricity nearby, but had gigabit fiber. I called the ISP and it was cheaper to get phone+Gb than just Gb due to subsidy rules.

    Basically everyone out there (including me) is on starlink now. Turns out the subsidies were not only inefficient, but pretty pointless.

    • aftbit  3 years ago

      Why would you be using Starlink if you have gigabit fiber available? Or was it still quite expensive to install even with the subsidy?

      1 reply →

    • daniel-cussen  3 years ago

      They helped a bit, for a while. Gigabit fiber is less maintenance than electrical power, and it's easier to roll-your-own electrical power than it is to get a Gb connection like how would you do that before Starlink, buy an insane amount of radio spectrum? I heard one HN user who did exactly that in Brazil, got a 20-meter tower to connect by radio to the internet some distance away, and it was a very solid high bandwidth connection. But still much harder than a generator and solar panels, or a tiny little hydropower generator on a stream (a great option in places like Southern Chile, not a joke by any means). Or wind.

the_only_law  3 years ago

Not sure if it’s what the person in question did, but there’s a whole guide that pops up on here occasionally regarding building a wireless ISP.

https://startyourownisp.com/

southerntofu  3 years ago

As the other commenters have pointed out, a possibility is simply to "resell" transit from other providers. However, on the Internet all peering networks are somewhat equal and it's entirely possible to extend the "other end" over time to establish dedicated peering with other networks, so that for example traffic from your network to Youtube doesn't have to go through (paid-for) 3rd parties.

There's good chances there are Internet eXchange Points around where you live where for a small maintenance fee anyone can come and place their router and cables to interconnect with others.

So the likely steps are:

1) Find a transit provider, that will serve your trafic to any other network, and where to connect with this provider 2) (Optional) If you don't have the necessary infrastructure, find another provider to get from your last-mile network to your transit provider 3) (Optional) Find other networks to peer with so that you can significantly reduce your transit bill and provide better routes (therefore better service)

Some non-profit ISPs take the problem from the other side, and build a core network without necessarily owning any last-mile infrastructure, which is leased from other operators (opérateurs de collecte) with whom they interconnect at some datacenter/IXP. The most famous example of that in France is FDN.fr which has been operating since early 90s. That approach is more cost-effective in high-density area where the local infrastructure is already quite good, and construction jobs to lay new cables is very costly, but will still set you back 10-30€/month/line.

andix  3 years ago

I think you more or less just buy connections from bigger ISPs, so for example you get a 100 Gbps connection to one location and distribute it to your end users from there.

Most of the equipment you can buy, you can even get a lot of the needed things as a service. You just need to organize all those hardware and software things, and get the economic and legal part right too. And in the end it needs to tie together in a way, that your earnings are bigger then your expenses.

I think it’s not so different to opening a car repair shop for example. Just more nerdy.

wil421  3 years ago

Depending on how close they are he could run cables (ethernet) or fiber. Single mode fiber can go 10km according to some Ubiquiti spec sheets I found on google. Ubiquiti also sells AirMax products that can do PTP or PTMP over the air, although some will be affected by rain. They could even rent space from a radio/cell tower. There are probably a decent amount of other products out there I am only familiar with Ubiquiti.

  • nixgeek  3 years ago

    You can shoot light over SM at distances up to 200km (several important caveats at this distance) and it’s very usual to see spans of between 50-80km.

    • wil421  3 years ago

      Looking further you can get a UFiber OLT Terminal for $1,799 that can run 20km and support 1024 clients or 128 ONU CPEs per port.

      How much would a 200km switch run?

      2 replies →