Comment by NayamAmarshe
3 years ago
I'm so tired of people wanting to turn Telegram into Signal, it's never going to happen. E2EE comes at a cost. The cost is decreased scalability and inferior UX as clearly evident.
Matrix can't even load 100 old messages properly with E2EE enabled in a room. Signal can't even handle scale when it comes to chat groups and communities. There's no anonymity in both either as Signal doesn't even allow you to hide your phone number and Matrix leaks your metadata to all involved participants like crazy.
Telegram doesn't use E2EE but the privacy and security are in no way compromised.
The whole fuss about "They can read your messages" holds a very negative assumption in the first place about them reading it and then also assumes everybody's threat model involves inferior UX of managing chat backups like WhatsApp just to keep messages away from cloud.
Just take a look at your threat model and decide what you want, not everybody wants an E2E encrypted chat app because we know the compromises that we have to make with E2EE and I'd rather have my chats on cloud encryption than my local device, considering how many features Telegram allows me to have with cloud sync.
> I'm so tired of people wanting to turn Telegram into Signal
Oh, no, please! What I want is the other way around: turning Signal into Telegram, i.e. keep bolting features onto Signal until it has feature parity with Telegram, or even what Telegram did five years ago. That would be a dream.
I disagree that e2ee can fundamentally not deliver Telegram's experience, at least not far off. It may need more local processing and indexing (storage), but generally it's all possible. It's just a ton of work that Telegram has sunk many millions into and will cost even more to do securely.
What you are absolutely wrong about, however, is claiming that it's all the same.
> Telegram doesn't use E2EE but the privacy and security are in no way compromised.
There are various scenarios in which your data on Signal is safe in ways that it is not on Telegram, and more actors can see your data on Telegram than on Signal. Thus, both security and privacy are impacted. That much is plain as day. Whether that is worth the trade-off, is up to you.
It's fine to have opinions and a conversation about whether the whole e2ee concept is silly, but please don't give your friends and family false senses of what the practical impact is for privacy and security when choosing these trade-offs by saying it's all just as safe and identical.