Comment by generalizations
3 years ago
And I guess that means we won't get any more cable interface innovation for a while. Are we really that certain that micro USB -- I mean, USB-C -- is the format to standardize on for the foreseeable future?
3 years ago
And I guess that means we won't get any more cable interface innovation for a while. Are we really that certain that micro USB -- I mean, USB-C -- is the format to standardize on for the foreseeable future?
And all because Apple refused to play ball and just adopt USB-C like the rest of the industry. They're too used to US regulators that just roll over and don't follow through with their threats.
For over a decade the EU has tried to get the industry to adopt a common standard without mandating it in law (we got microUSB on all phones instead of the previous proprietary ports thanks to the 2009 voluntary EU memorandum of understanding that had no problem with manufacturers upgrading to USB-C when it came out), and only Apple kept on refusing to do it.
> And all because Apple refused to play ball and just adopt USB-C like the rest of the industry.
History lesson: Apple worked with the USB-IF to create USB-C, to make sure it met their needs for both USB and Thunderbolt. They were the first to put USB-C on a laptop, the 12" MacBook in the spring of 2015 — an amazing feat considering that the spec was just finalized in the fall of 2014. They were also the first company to release a laptop with just one USB-C port for power/expansion.
Lightning was pre-USB-C. When it was introduced, Apple committed to support for 10 years.
If you want to invent a conspiracy theory that makes Apple look bad, here it is: If Apple would've switched to USB-C without an EU mandate, they would've received mountains of bad press about the unprecedented amount of e-waste and confusion that will result because of this switch. So they pressured the EU to mandate the change to a standard that Apple helped pioneer so that Apple's environmentally-friendly record would remain unblemished.
>So they pressured the EU to mandate the change to a standard that Apple helped pioneer so that Apple's environmentally-friendly record would remain unblemished.
Remember when they made us trade our 30-pin cables to Lightning cables?
Remember when they made us trade our headphones with 3.5mm jacks to wireless ones or get a dongle?
Remember when they made us trade our Lightning cables to USB-C cables?
Remember when they made us trade our MagSafe chargers for MagSafe 2 chargers?
Remember when they made us trade our MagSafe 2 chargers for USB-C cables?
(At least we can still use those USB-C cables alongside MagSafe 3 cables)
Remember when they made us trade our first-generation Apple Pencils to second-generation Apple Pencils?
If switching support for one type of hardware for another type of hardware is an environmental blemish by creating e-waste, then Apple's record surely is not spotless.
2 replies →
> So they pressured the EU to mandate the change to a standard that Apple helped pioneer so that Apple's environmentally-friendly record would remain unblemished.
Is this why apple's repairability index is always so low? Because by allowing their devices to be repaired they avoid being put in the landfills?
They totally don't use proprietary screws, and glue to help you repairing your device.
And again, they are changing thanks to.. legislation...
While you're giving this history lesson, when was Lightning introduced, and was it more than 10 years ago?
2 replies →
USB-C exists because apple didn't "play ball" and use USB-mini or USB-micro like the rest of the industry and developed the lightning port [0] (see comments on this article).
0 - https://9to5mac.com/2015/03/14/apple-invent-usb-type-c/
Thank fuck they didn't because otherwise we would have ended up with the shitty mini USB crap.
Apple has been the one company making progress on stuff:
- no floppy
- no optical
- no shitty as mini or micro USB
- no Flash
Each time people whined about the fact that they "didn't use what everyone else does" and each time they were right.
I'd say the one exception here is removing the headphone jack. I'm still really salty about that one. Even as a Pixel owner...the downstream ecosystem effect was everyone removing the headphone jack. And most Android phones didn't even get the waterproofing benefits!
Bluetooth just STILL isn't there from a reliability perspective. Even with the latest Gen 2 AirPods, I talk to friends who continue have sporadic stuff where a single bud cuts out, or you have to reconnect to get the mic working, or etc. etc... Just give me a damn analog plug and let me hear/talk!
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No flash was and continues to be a monopoly play, ensuring to competition to the app store
The EU regulations have regular reevaluations of the format built in.
So if something better comes along, it can replace USB-C at that point.
whos going to invest knowing their investment could be completely wasted on the whims of beaurocrats and on their schedule?
Who's going to invest in anything when the government can come, outlaw your product and throw you in jail?
If you think this won’t slow innovation in the connector space you’ve lost your mind.
It might be worth the lost innovation, but to pretend that this won’t impact new development is just fantasyland.
Wow, you can’t imagine how excited I am that EU regulators get to decide the direction of technology.
The standard complaint against USB is that it is innovating so quickly that the names are confusing, not that it isn't innovating.
Companies are trying to move to wireless charging anyway, so innovation would have been expected to be in that direction, and that will not be hampered.
Literally who uses wireless charging
Literally me.
Sadly, the first time this was considered by the EU was when all the phones were using Mini USB connectors. The same arguments back then.
Of course, Mini USB is largely deprecated and not used these days.
If they had forced Apple into Mini USB, would we have gotten adoption of Micro USB, and eventually Type-C connectors?
>And I guess that means we won't get any more cable interface innovation for a while.
What cable innovations has the iPhone had thus far?
Lightning? Certainly at the time it was released it was a far superior connector than the alternatives. USB-C wins out IMO but only because of its now-ubiquity. Lightning is still, I think, a slightly better connector for a handheld.
Lightning was never available for other manufacturers. Maybe it could have won if Apple hadn't kept it to themselves.
Lightning was 10 years ago, and that was to replace the then nine-year-old 30-pin Dock connector. And I think the only feature that the Lightning connector had over the 30-pin was that it was reversible. Unless we count the size as a feature?
Actually, the 30-pin connector had a bunch of functionality that was lost when Apple moved to Lightning. The 30-pin connector could for example carry analog audio. The Lightning to 3.5 mm headphone jack adapter needs to have a tiny DAC inside it to actually convert to analog signal.
So if the suggested premise is that we are not going to be seeing "any more cable interface innovation", I'd argue that we weren't seeing much from Apple anyways.
The lightning connector while everybody else was stuck with miniusb and microusb?
Yes
It doesn't matter what you think, the busybodies have made their choice so you can't make yours.
Couldn't agree more. I don't understand why the HN crowd is so supportive of government telling people what to do, as evidenced by your rapid downvotes. I don't use an iPhone but I'm disappointed Apple caved.
It's not much different than governments regulating electrical power oulets/plugs. And no one thinks that that should be a free-for-all.
Of course, there's still fragmentation among different continents/countries, but that was inevitable given the time periods these things were standardised. It's unfortunate that the world didn't decide on one standard, but at least almost all countries are internally consistent. There's no need to make the same mistake with USB.
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hacker news was overrun with non-technical people (with no real engineering or economics knowledge) long ago (like 6+ years). hardly any interesting discussion or deep understanding here anymore