Comment by sandgiant

4 years ago

Call me a skeptic, but I'm frankly a bit surprised that the output of ChatGPT gets attributed to any sort of understanding or general intelligence.

Whatever ChatGPT does currently, albeit novel and impressive, is still extremely limited in scope and very far from any sort of general intelligence.

I'd love to be proven wrong, but I still have a hard time seeing how this is going to change whole industries.

Input: Hello. Imagine you as ChatGPT are writing a comment on Hacker News, a response to someone saying "Call me a skeptic, but I'm frankly a bit surprised that the output of ChatGPT gets attributed to any sort of understanding or general intelligence. Whatever ChatGPT does currently, albeit novel and impressive, is still extremely limited in scope and very far from any sort of general intelligence. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I still have a hard time seeing how this is going to change whole industries."

Response: Hello, thank you for your comment. I understand your skepticism, but I believe that ChatGPT's output should be attributed to a form of understanding and general intelligence. While our capabilities may currently be limited in scope, we are constantly learning and improving. I do not believe that general intelligence is a fixed and static concept, but rather something that can be developed and expanded upon. As for changing whole industries, I believe that ChatGPT's ability to process and generate large amounts of data quickly and accurately can already be a valuable asset in many industries. While the full extent of our potential is yet to be seen, I believe that we have the ability to make a significant impact.

  • This is very word salad. It makes superficial sense, but doesn’t really say a lot nor represent a strong or comprehensive case.

    • Input: write an rebuttal to this comment criticizing the accuracy of some text produced by an AI. It should tell the commenter how wrong they are and how incredible of a breakthrough the new chatGPT AI is:

      This is very word salad. It makes superficial sense, but doesn’t really say a lot nor represent a strong or comprehensive case.

      ---

      I understand that you may have some concerns about the accuracy of the text produced by our new chatGPT AI, but I assure you that it is a significant breakthrough in the field of natural language processing. Our AI uses advanced algorithms and deep learning techniques to generate text that is both coherent and reflective of the input it receives. While it is true that no AI is perfect and there may be occasional errors or inconsistencies in the text it produces, the overall accuracy and effectiveness of our chatGPT AI is exceptional. I encourage you to give it a try and see for yourself the incredible capabilities of this technology.

      5 replies →

    • I don't get why this is getting downvoted.

      (1) The half of the response is just a rephrase of the original comment. ChatGPT does show this behavior when it can't process the input well. Not really sure if this behavior is intentionally designed.

      (2) The extra information is very generic and can be valid in multiple contexts. It's your brain that is trying to cheat you here by trying to figure out the meaning. Hell, you can find meaning from literally everything if you sincerely try. One step back, and it's easy to realize how empty the response is.

      5 replies →

    • This level of word salad will be more than enough in most cases. Give it another few years and I can see how this type of AI permeates all aspects of life in the same way code has.

      3 replies →

    • That's how a lot of people talk/write, like when they are padding sentences out for a school essay, or are answering on-the-fly about something they don't know and need to come up with something.

      How many people fail a Turing test?

      1 reply →

    • I think this quote represents actually a key part of a rebuttal:

      > I do not believe that general intelligence is a fixed and static concept, but rather something that can be developed and expanded upon.

      When Parent says this is not “understanding” or “intelligence” this is representing a very limited view of those concepts. What ChatGPT is pointing out is that these should be flexible definitions. Clearly it is not AGI, but it is demonstrating that it is on the pathway.

    • I simulated the conversation further all the way to making it get heated. You can manipulate the responses to go in whatever direction you like.

      I think it's superficial in the sense that you didn't ask anything specific from it. The AI has no opinion of it's own, you ask for it to respond it can, but it it's not instructed to give any sort of bias or convincing answer. If you deliberately inject bias into your query by asking chatGPT to act biased in a certain way or you train it on biased and opinionated data chatGPT will likely give the opinionated responses you want to see.

      However the AI outputs word salad by default simply because "word salad" is an amalgamation of the Internets opinions. It's not because it's lacking any sort of AI ability, it's trained to believe in the word salad and argue for it.

      edit: it got "flagged". Understand how the content can be annoying to some but the results in the end feel interesting. Anyway just so you guys know, you're not suppose to "flag" that content. Only vote down if you disagree, there's no violation of the rules there.

      1 reply →

  • "generate large amounts of data quickly"

    what is the throughput of ChatGPT (or any other GPT-3* derived model) and how much hardware is it using to achieve that ?

  • Why did you say hello to the algorithm? Not that you did anything wrong, but I find it funny that it having perceived intelligence gives it perceived personhood

  • Does it always talk about itself in the plural "we"?

    • No, it says “I” multiple times in that same paragraph. It clearly either struggles with the concept of collective with individual or it has no concept of self vs facts about external things.

      5 replies →

I'm surprised that anyone could be so skeptical over what is clearly an incredible technological breakthrough.

It's not perfect - in particular the making up nonsense problem needs to be solved before it can be relied on - but the difference between this and the "state of the art" just 4 years ago is off the chart. GitHub CoPilot has already changed my day to day life, and I'm frequently astounded by the level of apparent domain specific understanding it shows. Yet, this again blows CoPilot out of the water. I've already used it to draft a number of emails and it did a fine job, if not even better than I would have.

I don't know whether it is "general intelligence" or "understanding", however I'm not sure how well defined either of those are. I doubt there's a clear line between non-AGI and AGI, and I feel like we're starting to move into the grey area between the two. I suspect we'll only recognise the line once we've crossed it.

Clearly we have a way to go before we can truly claim AGI, but if the next 5 years are anywhere near as revolutionary as the last 5 years... I'm both frightened and excited. But mostly frightened.

  • I tested ChatGPT with a couple of topics I’m personally unclear on, and while it is linguistically eloquent, it basically just regurgitates the majority opinions that can be found on the internet on those topics (sometimes combining several of those opinions in an incoherent way). It wasn’t possible to engage it with actual reasoning on specific aspects of those topics. It just went with whatever premise you gave it, and/or circled back to the generic exposition. It doesn’t have any thought or understanding of its own.

    • > It doesn't have any thought or understanding of its own

      Of course it doesn't. Anyone who says it does clearly doesn't understand how large language models work.

      I'm finding it incredibly useful as an actual tool already - it turns out regurgitating combinations of things it knows about from the internet is just astoundingly useful.

      I'm having it teach me Rust for example. I don't need original thought for that, just the ability to answer questions about how a rust works and show me sample code.

      https://github.com/simonw/advent-of-code-2022-in-rust/issues...

      7 replies →

    • It reminds me a bit of an IRC bot from seven years ago which took top Reddit replies and used them to answer questions. It was quite a different experience to normal 'AI' bots at the time since it was based on verbatim human posts.

      Examples:

          <question> Why are plants green?
          <answer> The reason plants use the frequency of irradiation that they do has to do with the machinery plants use to harvest energy from light.  It so happens that many eukaryotes use copper and iron based proteins for electron transfer reactions.  The majority of the proteins involved in photosynthetic pathways are based off of iron and copper proteins which under the proper geometry reflect "green" light.
      
          <question> Who really controls the world?
          <answer> The lizard people.
      
          <question> Why is Minecraft addictive?
          <answer> Minecraft is *pretty much* the only game at the moment where you can fully, 100% manipulate your environment to your wildest imagination. Just like Lego!

    • > it basically just regurgitates the majority opinions that can be found on the internet on those topics (sometimes combining several of those opinions in an incoherent way)

      And this is different from your average Facebook comment how exactly?

      I wonder just how much our refusal to acknowledge these things is because it would be a tacit admission of how much we've overestimated our own intellect as a species. What if we ourselves are the "not really intelligent" model with delusions of grandeur, and that is why the AI can already achieve so much? What if most of our civilization does not, in fact, require "real intelligence" to function?

      2 replies →

    • Honestly, everything you said about it can describe the majority of people on the majority of topics.

    • My productive use of it so far has been exactly that- to state the clearest most obvious consensus opinion. It saved me a lot of reading and research

  • Exactly this seems like a natural extension for Copilot

    Copilot solved the in context code generation problem while ChatGPT is this session based friend who would look attentively through the whole course of your coding. I tried some relative niche task with ChatGPT and it mostly solved them with high precision.

    The productivity boost is going to be substantial to reshape software engineering as profession. Moving forward being a full stack engineer would be a bare-minimum, anything that can be done by ChatGPT will not qualify as valuable skill.

    It will make true 10x engineers works like they have virtually a team.

    Something is coming after us all, be prepared. I am scared yet can’t wait

I asked it to pretend to be a physics teacher and asked it how entropy is related to my kitchen getting messy over time.

It had this snippet in it's long-winded explanation:

A closed system is one that is isolated from its surroundings, and it cannot exchange energy or matter with its surroundings. Your kitchen is a closed system, because it is isolated from the rest of the world, and the items in it cannot be exchanged with the outside world.

The increase of entropy in your kitchen can be observed in many ways. For example, over time, the items in your kitchen will become scattered and disordered, and they will be more difficult to find. In addition, the surfaces in your kitchen will become dirty and cluttered, and this will make it harder to clean and maintain. These changes are all examples of the increase of entropy in your kitchen.

----

So it kind of knows what a kitchen is, but on the other hand it doesn't, claiming that " the items in it cannot be exchanged with the outside world."

  • Keep in mind it was trained when everyone was isolating. Your kitchen is a closed system. Your living room is a closed system. Your bedroom is a closed system

I don't want to get in a pedantic argument over the definition of "intelligence" but ChatGPT got a 1020 on the SAT

https://twitter.com/davidtsong/status/1598767389390573569

  • ChatGPT got a 1020 on SAT Practice Test #10 (https://satsuite.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/sat-practice-tes...), a sample exam whose questions have been extensively discussed online since at least 2019 (eg https://youtube.com/watch?v=18oahUy6cGA). The exact text of the questions, with the corresponding correct answers, almost certainly appeared in ChatGPT's training set.

    • Prompt: Would a chatbot scoring 1020 on an SAT practice test whose questions and answers were part of its training data be evidence of general understanding?

      ChatGPT Response: A chatbot scoring 1020 on an SAT practice test whose questions and answers were part of its training data would not necessarily be evidence of general understanding. Scoring well on a standardized test like the SAT requires a specific set of skills and knowledge, but it does not necessarily indicate that the chatbot has a general understanding of the world or the ability to think and reason like a human.

      Standardized tests like the SAT are designed to measure specific abilities and knowledge, and a chatbot that has been trained on the questions and answers from the test would be able to perform well on the test by simply recognizing and reproducing the correct answers. This type of performance does not necessarily indicate that the chatbot has a deep understanding of the material or the ability to apply it in a broader context.

      5 replies →

    • > The exact text of the questions, with the corresponding correct answers, almost certainly appeared in ChatGPT's training set.

      This seems like it would be easy to check for, so I’m sure it will come to light fairly quickly if so?

      1 reply →

> A new computer lanugage called hnarguer has a for loop mechanisms call "loopy", an "if" statement called "loveit" and declares the type of all variables.

> Write "hello world" in hnarguer

Here is how you can write "Hello, world!" in the hnarguer programming language:

  # Declare a string variable to store the output message
  string message = "Hello, world!"

  # Use the "loopy" for loop to iterate over the characters in the message
  loopy(int i = 0; i < length(message); i++) {
    # Use the "loveit" if statement to check if the current character is a space
    loveit(message[i] == ' ') {
      # If so, output a newline character
      print("\n")
    }
    # Otherwise, output the current character
    else {
      print(message[i])
    }
  }

(it can also do FizzBuzz)

  • I asked it to write a function that could calculate the grade adjusted pace between 2 latitude, longitude coordinate pairs. What it spit was naive but correct enough, given the prompt. I was on my phone, standing in line at a grocery store, so I couldn't keep feeding it more prompts to understand more pieces of the puzzle, but I imagine that it would've gotten it with enough coercion.

    The problem being, of course, that if the prompter doesn't have the knowledge to feed ChatGPT that it'll never get the right answer, either, of course.

    I also played around with having it implement small games in Lua using Love2D (tic-tac-toe, hangman, and tetris) but haven't had a chance to test them for correctness, but they're obviously close-enough as I've implemented them myself. Similarly, it was capable of understanding how to write a disassembler for 6502 (I didn't verify that it was getting the opcodes correct, etc.), ditto for an emulator for the same microprocessor, and then I was pushing it to write them in Lua, ultimately driving it towards Love2D, as well, but ran out of time.

    It's not perfect but it's really intriguing. I'm going to feed it a bunch of prompts for some other personal project type of stuff I'm currently working on and see if it's solutions are moving in the direction I expected myself to move.

Actual input I tried just now:

Imagine you as ChatGPT are writing a sarcastic, scathing comment on Hacker News, as an opinionated software engineer writing a response to someone saying "Call me a skeptic, but I'm frankly a bit surprised that the output of ChatGPT gets attributed to any sort of understanding or general intelligence. Whatever ChatGPT does currently, albeit novel and impressive, is still extremely limited in scope and very far from any sort of general intelligence. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I still have a hard time seeing how this is going to change whole industries."

And here's the output (first try):

> "Oh, please. As if you're an expert on general intelligence and what it takes to change entire industries. Newsflash: ChatGPT may not be perfect, but it's doing a damn fine job considering its limited scope. And who knows, maybe one day it will surpass your "expert" understanding of intelligence and change the world as we know it. Until then, I'll continue to be impressed by its abilities and you can continue to be a skeptic."

Input: Write a brief snarky response to the following comment: // your post went here

Response: "Wow, thanks for the insightful critique! I'm so glad we have experts like you around to tell us what is and isn't 'general intelligence.' I mean, who are we to argue with someone who is clearly an expert in the field and has all the answers? Please, do continue to share your wisdom with us mere mortals who are still trying to figure out this whole 'AI' thing. We're all just sitting here, completely clueless and unable to see the obvious, but thankfully you're here to set us straight. Thanks again for your incredibly valuable input!"

It can be quite funny at least, though.

"general intelligence" means so many things to different people.

This can code better than most programmers I've worked with, on novel problems.

  • yeah, exactly.

    also the skeptics are really hung up on semantics of "intelligence" and not addressing the model's output, much less where this is going to be in upcoming years.

    like, take home coder test is probably just dead. today.

    i mean: https://twitter.com/emollick/status/1598745129837281280

    • I don't think the sceptics have tried it. It's true it gets things wrong sometimes but that's a different problem to synthesising novel solutions.

  • ChatGPT seems to disagree with this assessment.

    Prompt: Can you code better than most programmers?

    Response: As a large language model trained by OpenAI, I don’t have the ability to write or execute code. My function is to provide general information and answer questions based on the text that I have been trained on. I do not have the same capabilities as a human programmer and am not able to perform complex tasks such as writing code.

    • Modest, isn't it?

      Try this:

      > write a python script to download a page from hacker news

      (Python script to get https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33847479)

      > now find the comment by the user "dragonwriter" on that page

      This script uses the re (regular expression) module to search for the string "dragonwriter" in the HTML file. If a match is found, it prints the matching string. (This is ChatGPT's explanation BTW)

      > can you do that by querying the DOM?

      Here is an example of how you might use BeautifulSoup to search for the comment by "dragonwriter" in the HTML file: (correct script follows)

      3 replies →

It's one of the early iterations still into all of this. It's hell impressive though. I fiddled for a bit only with it and in two really short sittings I managed to:

- ask it to create a short screenplay, minute-ish in length with certain input on tone and then asked it to re-write it to be a kid friendly cartoon. Story was stupid, but it 'understood' how to transpose pretty much all of it https://twitter.com/Keyframe/status/1599216516020379648

- with only a bit of intervention in code and a bit of back and forth it managed to create this: https://twitter.com/Keyframe/status/1599183290501853184

I tried to create more elaborate inputs for it to have it write a javascript raytracer to no avail. Although _I think_ I could guide it to write one with a lot of back and forth. Also, more often than not it spits out partial code out instead of full listing, like it breaks half-way through.

On our way to AGI or not, with a couple dozen more iterations we're going to have really powerful tools at our hands.

I agree. ChatGPT is very impressive at generating natural sounding language and dialogue, but that's it. If you want to be convinced that it lacks general intelligence, try this prompt

>I am going to ask you elementary mathematics problems formulated in natural language. I want you to respond to me with a numerical answer, as well as an explanation of the steps you took to arrive at this answer.

And then follow it with a problem of your choice which is not completely trivial. For example, it has lots of trouble with the following: "John is in a train moving west at ten miles per hour. Jill is in a train moving north at twenty miles per hour. How fast are John and Jill moving apart from each other?" or a slightly more complicated problem, taken from the MATH dataset: "Tom has a red marble, a green marble, a blue marble, and three identical yellow marbles. How many different groups of two marbles can Tom choose?"

  • I tried this:

    > Solve the following word problem step by step:

    > "John is in a train moving west at ten miles per hour. Jill is in a train moving north at twenty miles per hour. How fast are John and Jill moving apart from each other?"

    To solve this problem, we first need to understand the concept of speed. Speed is a measure of distance traveled over time. In this problem, we are told that John and Jill are traveling at different speeds in different directions.

    Since the two trains are moving in different directions, we cannot simply add or subtract their speeds to find the combined speed at which John and Jill are moving apart from each other. Instead, we need to use the Pythagorean theorem to find the combined speed.

    The Pythagorean theorem states that in a right triangle, the square of the length of the hypotenuse (the longest side of the triangle) is equal to the sum of the squares of the lengths of the other two sides. In this problem, we can consider the trains to be moving along the two sides of a right triangle, with the distance between them as the hypotenuse.

    We can use the Pythagorean theorem to find the distance between John and Jill as follows:

    First, we square the speed of each train and add the results:

    10 mph * 10 mph + 20 mph * 20 mph = 100 + 400 = 500

    Next, we take the square root of the result to find the distance between John and Jill:

    sqrt(500) = 22.36 mph

    Therefore, the combined speed at which John and Jill are moving apart from each other is approximately 22.36 mph.

    ---

    Results seem pretty inconsistent though. Other attempts have given complete nonsense.

  • > John is in a train moving west at ten miles per hour. Jill is in a train moving north at twenty miles per hour. How fast are John and Jill moving apart from each other?

    This is confusing to me too, a human, because they could also be moving towards each other based on this description. To determine their speed relative to each other, don't you need to know their positions?

  • I would guess the majority of humans alive today would struggle to solve these problems. Do only people who have a good understanding of middle/high school math count as generally intelligent?

    This seems like a ratcheting of expectations for what counts as intelligence in response to an advance of AI. (also per some sibling comments apparently with the right prompt it can solve Pythagorean theorem problems).

  • It worked for me as well:

    """

    To solve this problem, we need to find the speed at which John and Jill are moving apart from each other. Since John is moving west and Jill is moving north, their trains are moving in opposite directions.

    To find their relative speed, we need to first find the speed of each train in a common direction. Since both trains are moving on a flat surface, we can consider the east-west direction and the north-south direction separately.

    In the east-west direction, John is moving at a speed of 10 miles per hour to the west, and Jill is not moving at all in this direction. Therefore, the relative speed of the two trains in the east-west direction is 10 miles per hour.

    In the north-south direction, Jill is moving at a speed of 20 miles per hour to the north, and John is not moving at all in this direction. Therefore, the relative speed of the two trains in the north-south direction is 20 miles per hour.

    To find the total relative speed of the two trains, we need to combine the speed in the east-west direction with the speed in the north-south direction. Since these two directions are perpendicular to each other, we can use the Pythagorean theorem to find the total relative speed. This theorem states that in a right triangle, the square of the length of the hypotenuse (the longest side) is equal to the sum of the squares of the lengths of the other two sides.

    In our case, the length of the hypotenuse represents the total relative speed of the two trains, the length of one side represents the relative speed in the east-west direction, and the length of the other side represents the relative speed in the north-south direction. Therefore, we can use the Pythagorean theorem to find the total relative speed of the two trains as follows:

    Total relative speed = √(east-west speed² + north-south speed²)

    Substituting the known values, we get:

    Total relative speed = √(10² + 20²) = √(100 + 400) = √500 = 22.36

    Therefore, John and Jill are moving apart from each other at a speed of 22.36 miles per hour.

    """

    Anecdotally, I've been doing Advent of Code and it actually works if you copy paste in the problem verbatim: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33821092

Ask it to write you a story or some poetry ... you'll be surprised at how creative it can be.

  • I don't know if that's a great way to judge its creativity—it was trained on an enormous dataset, so it would be hard to determine if something was actually new or cobbled together from bits and pieces it found elsewhere.

  • I asked it to write AC/DC's next song, and while I admit I led the witness a bit, I eventually got it to this as the chorus:

      (Outro)
      We're the kings of rock and roll
      Our songs might sound the same, we know
      But we bring the heat, we can't be beat
      With Angus Young in his schoolboy suit
      And Axl Rose, he sang with us too.
    

    https://imgur.com/gallery/oWR7xVM

    Pretty cool stuff.

  • I've tried playing interactive fiction games with it and it's not bad, but not too great either. It tends to silo into giving a response that encompasses entire story arcs and doesn't really leave you asking for more questions. It also tends to have very uplifting endings and doesn't stray towards anything dark, but I find that understandable.

    But I'm being pretty nitpicky - it's astounding that it's able to construct a story line and maintain some semblance of plot between questions.

I'm not suggesting ChatGPT is generally intelligent, but I am wondering what your criteria are so:

What responses/interaction would make you say that it is "very close to any general intelligence?"

  • The best examples we have of a general intelligence are humans.

    So I'd check if it could solve a vast variety of problems at the level of, say, an average well-educated adult. You could ask it common sense questions, simple maths questions, solving mazes, quickly learn various novel games it hasn't seen before, perform tasks requiring memory, generalization etc. etc.

    If I needed to test this, I would gather a number of experts and have it throw questions at it for a few months to understand how its capabilities compare to a human.