Comment by snovv_crash
3 years ago
Exactly! I like to explain this kind of casual rulebreaking to US/UK people as being the German equivalent of using disgusting swearwords. Fine to do with your friends if nobody is around, or if you want to look tough or whatever, but don't do it in crowds and especially not in front of children.
I think this is strange. What is the example you're setting... that we all follow the rules? And when they find out that you don't follow the rules, will that not be a disappointment?
Here is an incident that happened the second day I got to Vietnam (long before I was ever in Germany). My girlfriend was really sick in the hotel. I was vomiting too, but I went out to find medicine. I got to the corner of a huge boulevard, maybe 8 lanes wide. There was a pharmacy on the other side. But the traffic never stopped when the light turned red. On and on the traffic just kept going, weaving around all the other cars on the cross-street. The boulevard was maybe 1 meter below the level of the sidewalk. I stood there for 5 minutes waiting for some time to step into the street.
Finally, a 6-year-old boy walked up alone, paused next to me, and started crossing the boulevard in the middle of the traffic. And all the cars and motorcycles just went around him.
I was like, well fuck, if that kid can do it then I can do it...
So what value are you teaching children? How to cross a street or how to follow orders? Crossing a street when it's possible may be illegal but it's not immoral. The idea that neglecting formalities leads to immorality can only be true if the morality isn't implanted. Worse, it implies that formalities are the only thing that holds back man's immoral nature... which should not be the lesson. If a man jaywalks, it doesn't make him more liable to commit other criminal acts.
That's just how traffic works in many countries. "Jaywalking" is the normal behavior, especially when streets are filled with traffic. You slowly wade through traffic in a straight line, so drivers can anticipate where you are and let you through safely. While in other countries, it is generally expected to follow the traffic rules. People exploit that to drive faster and/or less carefully, therefore crossing the street like in Vietnam might get you killed in more "orderly" countries. Violating red lights is not taught to children because they don't necessarily appreciate the dangers involved[0]. The correct way to do it is to evaluate all risks, erring on the side of safety, and only then override your instinct to follow the rules.
[0]: I often notice that children are quite unobservant of their surroundings and behave as if they are alone in the world.
Crossing a street when the light is red is dangerous, because it means other traffic will have a green light. You want to teach children to stop for red lights, or you're going to end up with dead kids sooner rather than later.
Countries like Vietnam are the exception, not the rule. In most countries traffic won't swerve around you, they'll just end up hitting you because they are not expecting it!
> Countries like Vietnam are the exception, not the rule.
I don’t think this is necessarily true. They probably end up with a lot more dead kids as a result of this.
> So what value are you teaching children?
What value are you teaching children by not swearing in front of them? Why is making certain sounds with your mouth immoral? Isn't it just showing your are in-group and well cultured? The jwalking culture in Germany is exactly the same.
> Isn't it just showing your are in-group and well cultured?
Yes, but that is not necessarily a bad thing. Learning that different groups of people may have their own languages and customs is the first step to being able to blend in with a diverse group; it's great when you're able to adopt a register appropriate to the people you are with at any given moment.
Of course it's also possible that the child learns to be a snob and treating with disdain those who are not in your group. But I would say that's a character trait of the person, and it's still worth having the opportunity to learn how to adapt, rather than being unable to modulate your behavior and only knowing how to have a single posture. Having a culture of acceptance starts with knowing the customs of many different groups.
The reasoning is: Children are both small and stupid. They cannot reliably judge when a red-light crossing is safe.
I don't know how Vietnam makes it work; they either have really alert drivers, really slow drivers or a really high child mortality rate.
It's just different expected behavior. Drivers have to constantly be on alert of people doing their thing. Tuktuk rides in Bangkok can be exhilarating because of motorbikes crisscrossing through traffic right and left of you. I was glad our driver was used to it and that I didn't quite see a lot because of the low roof... Vehicular accident statistics are the ultimate judge here.