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Comment by kr0bat

2 years ago

  I came to realize that there was a long-standing scientific controversy in the field, and I felt that I had no choice but to get to the bottom of things myself. Although I am not a medical doctor, I hold a PhD in neuroscience and am familiar with critically reading scientific literature. I decided that I would invest as much time as necessary to learn everything I possibly could on the subject. At that point, there was nothing in my life more important than finding out what had really happened to my son.

This is why higher education (and academic mettle) is amazing

I think that speaks more towards the author than higher education.

Definitely a tangent, but attributing that attitude to higher education is like someone attributing a doctor saving their life to an act of god. Like yeah if you squint I guess that’s true.

My experience with higher education has been that of administrators taking advantage of my naivety for profit, elitism towards those not in academia, and dismissal of any ideas that wouldn’t directly result in a grant or a good headline.

I wouldn’t really say that the author’s “mettle” is a result of the same environment.

  • Yeah I dunno... I mean, a lot of these things are true, and they all are big problems, but also, in my experience, academics (at least in the sciences) do actually know how to read and understand research, which is an extremely difficult and useful skill.

    • Yeah, I think "mettle" here is like a sword and shield and the ability to use them (read and understand scientific literature, and able to do so, self-directed, for years).

      But whether a person does use them, and for what, is entirely due to the person themselves.

    • That’s okay, I know.

      Anyone with the wherewithal can learn to “read and understand research” it’s not a magical power bestowed upon the few who receive recognition from some long standing bloated institution.

      Attributing the drive and work of an individual to such an institution is weird and elitist.

      I should note that if said institution paid for, assembled the team, and provided resources, then that institution obviously deserves credit.

      3 replies →

    • Isn't that just what PhD do? I meant going through piles of papers - most of them bring more new questions than answers - and stay sane

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    • Many academics have these skills; whether the higher education system is effective at teaching them and delivers an experience worth the significant cost to students (or here in Australia, also the publics).

      2 replies →

  • Lots of other parents driven to look for answers about what happened to their child, but being far less educated on how to read and understand academic papers, ended up "doing their own research" and became antivaxxers. There's a lot to be said for having an education that enables you to evaluate scientific literature effectively.

    • The kind of people who get PhDs can also figure out how to read academic papers on their own. There's a lot of correlation/causation mix up on this thread.

      For instance, people who get accepted into Harvard but don't attend have the exact same life outcomes to those who get accepted and do attend. The same is now true for college in general once you account for opportunity costs.

    • I was in a private discussion group during the pandemic that "did their own research"

      First off, this was genuinely valuable during the first few months. Gigantic medical institutions were moving at a glacial pace and were making proclamations literally months behind the state of the research. In order to conserve masks, propaganda was put out that masks were only effective if you were a medical professional, and the most common way I saw this rationalised was that the general public was simply too stupid to wear a mask in a sanitary way. So I proceeded to wear a mask in a sanitary way. Then after a few months mask stocks started to pile up so propagandists THEN pronounced that more science was conducted and masks were actually effective for everybody!

      That positive outcome aside, what other people saw was that the younger people got, the lower the risks of COVID, and the higher the risks of getting vaccinated. In fact, it seemed from the numbers (This is for the earlier strains of COVID), that for certain populations (young people who lived like hermits, in other words, hacker news readers) it could be on a selfish individual basis, be irrational to get the COVID vaccine. The risk from myocarditis could actually outweigh the risk of COVID itself. It was however, always in the collective interest for as many people to get vaccinated as possible, to reduce the transmission of COVID, and reduce the consequent strain on medical resources and the direct/indirect deaths this caused. Public health institutions did not get into this nuance, because it wasn't in the collective interest, so they just told everybody the vaccine was good for you. I proceeded to get vaccinated, and the main person I held discussions with did not, after both drawing the exact same scientific conclusion. Not every anti-vaccer was stupid, some of them were just massive civil libertarians.

      What I saw from people who DIDN'T do their own research is that they were UNIFORMLY misinformed because they tended to either believe institutions who would lie to them whenever it served their purposes (2 weeks to flatten the curve!), or believed whatever podcaster told them about Ivermectin.

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Yes, I met other parents with higher education/a scientific background (researchers, engineers...) and living the same situation with their child. They naturally question the assertions by healthcare professionals, they make their own research, they ask highly precise and relevant questions to such a point that most doctors are simply unable to answer...

I remember that as I was questioning the diagnosis at the hospital and trying to make sure there wasn't another medical explanation, I was basically threatened by doctors who told me, "Just stop asking questions and accuse your nanny as everyone else, or you'll be the one in trouble". Apparently, it was very unusual for a parent to refrain from accusing the nanny when she was the suspect number 1!

I actually know one case where the parents (with a high education) were "too fast" in exonerating their nanny and tried to find a second medical opinion on their own to find out why their child was sick. Well, the judicial system didn't like it and they ended up being accused themselves. Their child was taken away for 4 months. The trauma was so intense that their family didn't survive and they eventually divorced (that's unfortunately the fate of many, if not most families).

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  • I'm not dismissive of education. I learn on the job. I learn in my free time. I learn to further my career. I learn to help myself out. I learn for fun.

    What I resent is the absurd idea that going to a brick and mortar institutions for 4, 6, maybe 10 years, following a track the teacher and administration considered best, with the vast majority of those being educated getting an outdated curriculum, is an effective means of learning. This entire attitude is portrayed as pro-education but it's really just pro-institution. It's only an effective means of learning insofar that the credential you get at the end can open doors to opportunities to learn, a point I will readily concede.

    I also have done amateur medical research in my spare time and literally printed out some papers and taken them to my doctor and said "let's do this". This ended up being very successful and very productive. It's not what the OP did is something people who did fancy book lernin' through a SCHOOL can do only after years of toil. You can just pick up the skills you need as you go and get reasonable results.

    • I think you underestimate the lack of self directed learning ability people have before going to a higher education institutions. I know I would have failed at solo learning without going to college before hand.

      Structured education can definitely help a majority of students who need to get to a point where self directed learning is effective. I have my qualms with higher education but its existence itself is not one of them.

  • And that’s solid advice for starting a tech company. (This is a y combinator website)