Comment by hereme888
3 years ago
I could have been that guy, and worse.
When I was 19 I got caught selling a bunch of MDMA at a night club. Undercover police caught me, and by God's grace they chose to let me go.
MDMA had just begun to carry a minimum 10 yr prison sentence throughout the state.
I had no idea what I was doing in my life, like I was asleep and not awake, until I got caught that night.
About 15 minutes into the interrogation at the scene, Officer Garcia - I still remember him - knowing my mental state of panic and realization of reality, said to me "You know, when I was your age I did the same thing, and I was forgiven and let go. So what I'm going to do is forgive you and let you go this time. Go home, and don't ever do this again."
I drove home at about half the speed limit that night, trying to process what had happened. First time I had experienced such forgiveness and mercy.
The aim of my life now is to maximize the amount of good I can do for others. I'll never forget. I could still be in prison. Maybe as an open source computer programmer, but prison nonetheless.
It's a big risk to let someone go like that; will they actually repent, or continue causing harm?
That man gave you your entire life back. It's not just the time you would have served, but it would have ruined so much of the rest of your life too.
Oh yea. Part of me coming to reality was the officer helping me realize that it would have ruined my family, and had quite a criminal record.
He did give him back his life.
But how is it possible that his life was at risk at all? Why a 10 year sentence for taking drugs? The government should simply not have that power.
Like the other person said, it was for selling, not taking. Also, I think someone should have the power to keep the public safe, whether government, or a society-sponsored group.
The cops were undercover DEA with previous experience going underground in places like Colombia. They had been in rough places. Their focus was mainly hunting the big guys: suppliers. End-chain young people trying to make a quick buck is low yield, and if anything going after them distracts from the root of the problem and alerts the big guys.
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10 year sentence for selling drugs, not taking them.
Its kind of ironic that most law and order folks would consider this an example or dirty cops being dirty or privilegeor whatever. The fact is, this stuff doesn't really seem to happen anymore unless you're the Prime Ministers wife or something
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Or, rather, he declined to steal his life away and imprison him for what they obviously both agreed was a bullshit reason.
I don’t think declining to be a villain warrants the same response as choosing to be a hero.
The power of stories like this never fails to humble me. There are countless (less dramatic) incidents like this in every life. Your experience brings them back into focus.
Offtopic, but minimum sentences are nuts. What's the point of judges and juries etc if we make the law so aggressive that they hardly have a say anymore?
The minimum sentence had been recently enforced at that time because things were getting really out of hand with MDMA flooding the markets. Probably tons of deaths, adulterated compounds, and ruining people's brains.
I say ruining people's brains because, in the world of raves I was involved in, most customers were teens, and I knew quite a bit who kept taking it excessively for self-medication, eventually just to get through the day, and I would see the decline in their cognitive functions over time. It was really sad. I denied selling to those people because they scared me. But...I was selling nonetheless. So unaware of the consequences of my actions...
Juries ultimately have the final say in conviction. Its well within their right to go not guilty for any reason.
Judges and lawyers absolutely hate it, but juries aren't there just as a logical check on laws as written and facts as presented. Juries are a check on the legal system and laws themselves.
Sure, but saying someone is not guilty when obviously they are but a 10 year prison sentence is way out of proportion for what they did, that’s stupid too right? It means we expect juries to lie, on purpose, to prevent ruining someone’s life. It forces juries to pick between two bad extremes.
These kinds of laws remove the opportunity for juries (or judges where I live) to eg say “6 months of community service” when it’s more appropriate.
> Judges and lawyers absolutely hate it,
Well, defense lawyers love it, the only thing they hate is not being allowed to mention it to juries.
If you look up the terms “no reasonable jury” and “judgment of acquittal,” you can learn more.
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> What's the point of judges and juries etc if we make the law so aggressive that they hardly have a say anymore?
Minimum sentences don't impact the juries say, which doesn't extend to sentencing in the first place, at all.
Kudos to officer Garcia. I don’t know many people who still bring that kind of responsibility to their job. So much easier to just follow the rules. Even among judges I know only very few who have the guts to make an actual judgement, which, after all, requires to say “I” - which seems almost an audacity today.
Sounds like the plot of Les Mis!
Les Mis has a totally different feel when you've been locked up. It touches me even deeper.
Was about to say! Real life Jean Valjean
You should not have been arrested.
MDMA should have been legal.
End of story.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-023-02565-4 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34708874/ https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/18/well/mind/mdma-ecstasy-ri... https://www.euronews.com/next/2023/07/03/australia-just-lega...
It's legal or decriminalized in Portugal, The Czech Republic, The Netherlands, and Switzerland, by the way. Surprise: Those are now the countries with the lowest number of drug deaths and drug related crimes in Europe.
Haha I understand your point. But it is a dangerous substance when used without medical supervision.
And more importantly, what I was selling was presumably MDMA. I didn't have kits to check the batches for adulteration. What if people died? I was not ready for that responsibility.
I sure would not have bought from you, as it's a stupid idea to buy from someone inside a club where it very well may be the case that the seller did not do quality control. For me, that would have been the part to feel bad about: "How on earth could I put other ravers lives in danger by selling pills that I have not had tested, and that could contain pretty much anything?".
I also agree that MDMA can be a dangerous substance of course. Far less toxic than alcohol, but still.
But compared to this, ending up in the US jail system carries FAR bigger risks. As you said: It could have ruined your life. It could also have ruined the life of people who bought from you, as they could also have ended up getting arrested.
I really can not imagine a drug available that will do worse things to your life than ending up inside the US jail system.
Isn't that precisely an argument for legalisation? You wouldn't have 19 year kids selling shit, you would have pharmacies and certification processes and etc.
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I wonder how many people here would agree with your claim "it is a dangerous substance when used without medical supervision". Often in hacker circles soft drugs are viewed as something people can take on their own provided that, as you suggest, purity is guaranteed. And while setting and trusted and savvy companionship is important, the involvement of a medical professional may kill the whole freespirited vibe.
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Although I agree with you, imho the point the parent was making was that:
a) when you are 16-18-20-22 you don't know sh*t about life - you are still a newbie. It doesn't mean that drug-trafficking is excused but when I look back at my 18yo self, I could have died 100 times between 18 and 22. And I could have 'taken some people with me' while doing so.
b) it's in the person. When given a second chance you can either turn your life around (and a Mr. Garcia will never see you again) or you can go back the very next day and maybe a Mr. Garcia will be finding your corpse in a back alley because a trade went sour.
As for Preston Thrope - hang in there. It's a long path to salvation - almost endless. As long as you keep your head up high and give the good fight, good things will (probably?) come. I've watched enough of John Oliver's Last Week Tonight shows to know that you got myriad of forces that want to see you fail so keep walking and dreaming!
I agree I veered off the parent's point.
In his case his whole life could have been ruined by selling a harmless (if clean!) drug to ravers who very clearly know what and why they are buying a substance from him.
Also, in my hypothetical "you should not have been arrested as it should be legal case" he might have ended poor and homeless in the street because everybody was just going to the pharmacy instead of buying from him. :)
Ok...? Why would you start debating MDMA legality when someone's sharing their story?
Also, all the studies you linked are about using it in therapy vs using it at a rave?
presumably because OP was traumatised by this interaction with law enforcement that - had things been only subtly different - could have been a catastrophic event in their life.
there wasn’t a moral crime here - MDMA is widely regarded to be.. safe (please don’t bite on that, i mean to say that current research indicates that it’s probably less dangerous than alcohol). so why should that have been so traumatic?
I don't think MDMA is "legal or decriminalized" in the Czech Republic...? Sure, consumption of _anything_ is decriminalized here (you are allowed to possess only a tiny amount for your own consumption) but other than that, owning, offering, selling, importing, etc. MDMA is very much criminalized here!
"Very much criminalized" is a matter of perspective. Getting caught first-time in non-violent drug crimes in the Czech Republic means you'll end up with a minimal sentence on probation without actual jail time.
In the US, your life would be ruined forever.
But yeah, legal consumption without legal supply (with quality control!) does not fully solve the problem.
How does that work exactly? How does one end up with a tint amount for personal consumption if someone else couldn't legally allowed to have enough to sell?
Seems really strange that the government would have bothered decriminalizing consumption if the supply itself is illegal.
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In Switzerland the sentencing isn't very tough for possession in small quantities, but you certainly cannot _sell_ MDMA and hope for lenient treatment.
Are you sure it's decriminalized for selling? Selling and consuming are not the same thing.
Also some the best countries to hide criminal activity without having to hide yourself. <3
NACAB