Comment by jrflowers

2 years ago

> meme-ing with little actual specific policy substance behind it.

This is a good point. Can we really say for certain that “bombing noncombatant countries both during a war and after a treaty was signed” is a war crime, and even if it were would “coming up with the whole idea” even count as contributing to something like that? It is confusing stuff like this that has led to no person ever being convicted for war crimes — the concept is too nebulous and complex to nail down.

Surely if Kissinger were a war criminal he would have said so in the books that he wrote

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jrflowers

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n8cpdx  2 years ago

You can be both a war criminal and an insightful writer.

  • anigbrowl  2 years ago

    Indeed - that's why I didn't deny above that Kissinger was interesting; he was a deep thinker, and I can see the motive behind many of his decisions, though I don't agree with it. Likewise I read Nixon and many other people whose politics I find disagreeable or even atrocious. What I dislike about Kissinger are both his extremely cynical strategic policies and that in the ~50 years since, he appears to have spent most of his time defending those policies and the ideas behind them, while making little or no effort to mitigate the negative outcomes.

reducesuffering  2 years ago

See, this is what I'm talking about. You can read about Operation Menu for yourself.

"In 1966, Sihanouk made an agreement with Zhou Enlai of the People's Republic of China that would allow PAVN and VC forces to establish base areas in Cambodia and to use the port of Sihanoukville for the delivery of military material

Before the diplomatic amenities with Sihanouk [and the US] were even concluded, Nixon had decided to deal with the situation of PAVN/VC troops and supply bases in Cambodia.

On 30 January 1969, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Earle Wheeler suggested to the president that he authorize the bombing of the Cambodian sanctuaries. He was seconded by General Creighton W. Abrams, who also submitted his proposal to bomb the Central Office of South Vietnam (COSVN), the elusive headquarters of PAVN/VC southern operations, located somewhere in the Fishhook region of eastern Cambodia. Abrams claimed to Nixon that the regions of eastern Cambodia to be bombed were underpopulated and no civilian deaths would be caused."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Menu

But instead, all any snarky layman hears from the grapevine is that Kissinger is coming up with the whole plan to bomb a random Commie country for zero reason. That you know Kissinger's name and not any of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Sec Def, or Sec State at the time involved in these decisions tells everything. People need an evil mastermind scapegoat, like McNamara was for Vietnam, because they can't comprehend the complexities involved in fog of war decision making, with no hindsight, and all the actors involved.