Comment by yodsanklai
2 years ago
> When has Likud ordered massacres of civilians?
Considering that they killed 15K+ civilians in various ways in just a couple of weeks , and bombed two thirds of the buildings in north gaza including hospitals, refugee camps, they were certainly not trying very hard not to kill them. So practically, this doesn't make a big difference.
It seems the order were "bomb anything that may have a hamas member nearby, and don't bother about any civilian nearby (even israelis hostages).
I don't think you can possibly know that they killed 15k civilians. Those numbers are reported by Hamas and don't contain a breakdown of civilian vs. militant.
That doesn't change the tragedy of innocents being killed - that's still a horrible tragedy. But Israel is not going around just killing civilians for no reason, as that number makes it seem.
The UN has reported that 7,729 children and 5,153 women have been killed (by Israel) in Gaza as of Dec 8, 2023. https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-i...
Also, since you mention civilian vs militant casualties, it might be worth mentioning that hundreds of the Israeli casualties on Oct 7 were Israeli soldiers.
The UN is just repeating the same gazan ministry of health numbers, as the link points it explicitly.
And yes, it's not a secret that in addition to the hundreds of civilians that Hamas targeted, it also attacked military bases. (Though also worth mentioning that it's illegal to kill soldiers too, if they've surrendered and/or don't have weapons on them.)
But yes, I think Hamas targeting bases is one reason I consider this to be an invasion into Israel. Since Hamas has promised to invade again and again, it's very clear that it cannot be lived with peacefully.
Considering that those very hospitals were used as military bases and that Hamas is hiding among the population, the numbers alone don’t say anything about how hard Israel is trying or not trying to kill civilians.
Besides, even if that were the order, that doesn’t make it illegal or immoral. Destroying military assets is an essential part of war. If you want civilian losses to be minimized, you’d do well to keep military assets clearly delineated from civilian zones. If you don’t and your people die as a result… well, that’s on you, not on the enemy you’re fighting.
Can you share which hospitals were used as military bases?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alleged_military_use_of_al-Shi...
"Not trying very hard not to kill them" may be true, but that is still vastly different from a "massacre," which is deliberate by definition.