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Comment by mariusor

2 years ago

I don't know if ending another human's life leaves any possibility of redemption for a person, but reading this I still empathize with the sense of loss and powerlessness that emanate from this letter.

I suspect many are aware of this but for those uninformed:

Reiser committed premeditated murder of his (ex?)wife Nina around 2006 and hid her body so well they could not find her. He made his children think either that their mother abandoned them. He had thought without a body he could not be charged and convicted.

I believe he waited until it was apparent he would lose the trial and then plead down so that they could recover her body.

I want to believe redemption is possible, especially given how eloquent he is, but his demonstration of calculation over emotion in her murder makes me strongly question his change.

  • He was far less of a mastermind than he fancied himself at the time.

    If I recall, he bought a book on murder investigations and a socket set after his wife's disappearance (which was easily tracked back to him), removed car seats (blood) from his car, and willingly testified in court that it was his manly dream to sleep in the car, or something along these lines.

    He could have likely gotten away with it if he kept his mouth shut. Luckily he had the arrogance of believing he had actually come up with a convincing story.

  • High levels of calculation in times when high levels of calculation are required to keep you out of prison are not a sign of anything.

    Humans are amazing at compartmentalizing things like this away, even while they are happening.

    It is impossible to know from this single datapoint if he is remorseful or not, but it is not at all outside of the realm of possibility.

    As a child I merely punched my brother and I tried to kill myself afterwards because of the guilt. In the moment I could not have been more prescient about what I was about to do and what I was doing. I recalled how I had observed him fighting others, how he threw punches, how he swung his arm based on how angry he was, and I planned an arc that took advantage of his habits and clocked him. Knocked him out in one punch.

    The instant he hit the floor I felt remorse like I had never felt before. Who the hell am I to take an action like that?!

    Anyway, how someone feels while doing something like that does not necessarily reflect how they feel at any other time in their lives. It also may reflect how they are at all times, or anywhere in between.

    There is no foolproof way to know.

  • > I want to believe redemption is possible, especially given how eloquent he is, but his demonstration of calculation over emotion in her murder makes me strongly question his change.

    I think it would be ridiculous for me to presume that I can possibly have any view into whether or not someone has sincerely changed, but why should the fact that someone was calculating once affect whether they have changed? I could see doubting the apparent demonstration of change, because they might have calculated the appropriate words to say, but I don't see any reason that a calculating person is less able sincerely to change than any other.

    • I consider it a Bayesian approach to understanding potential internal drivers. Someone who is not cold and calculating likely has less capacity to completely present the appearance of redemption whereas someone who is calculating has that capacity.

      So, someone who is demonstrated to be calculating has higher odds of faking a behavior if it is beneficial to them (e.g. leaving prison).

      It's for him to know, but I don't think it's ridiculous for me to question.

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  • Source on premeditated?

    Everything I saw made it look like it was spontaneous (and then he put a lot of work and some poor planning into trying to hide it).

    I could obviously be wrong, I didn't really spend that much time on it.

    (Note: I know he was initially found guilty of first degree murder but it appears that first degree murder doesn't necessarily require premeditation.)

    • Yeah, I don't think the murder itself was premeditated, but he did treat the event with a sort of self-serving callousness that gave the perception that he did not care about Nina's life beyond how it affected his.

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    • I think he planned it.

      * He testified on the stand that Nina was a terrible person and a danger to their children. A bold strategy when you're on trial for murdering your wife.

      * He was angry that Nina preferred that one of his sons not play violent video games like Grand Theft Auto, because he believed his son was special and might learn something about how violence really works.

      * Right before he was arrested, he handed the hard drives from his computer to his lawyer. His lawyer gave the drives to the court about 3/4 through the trial. The judge was extremely displeased. The court had the county's forensic investigators go through the drives. The drives were formatted with NTFS, NOT ReiserFS. One insane email chain discovered in it was Nina mailing Hans about the logistics of planning for new clothes and school supplies for the 2 kids for the upcoming new school year, Hans response was "It is Moscow 1942, you are the Germans, I will prevail".

I spent 10 years in jail. For a large part of that I socialized mainly with those who had committed murder. Some had committed more than one.

Most of the murderers I met are some of the nicest people I ever met (if you can temporarily disregard their crime). People are not defined by their worst mistake.

I am in very regular contact with many of them as they work their way through the system. Some of them have life sentences without parole, which is a hard pill to swallow.

I think my autobiography will be titled "All my friends are murderers."

I'm always wary of how manipulating some people can be. To be clear, I'm not declaring this letter or Reiser is that way necessarily, just how people have that capability.

That said, to me, some of the specific phrases used felt that they were for a parole board rather than the broader audience, or charitably, both. But perhaps I've become too jaded.

  • > too jaded

    I don’t think you are. The number of times the person inferring I’m jaded is later found out to be a manipulator is very high. Calling people who are perceptive of lies, “jaded”, “negative”, “pessimistic”, etc is seemingly a common tactic employed by sociopaths to socially empower themselves while simultaneously weakening those that might call them out.

"Ending another human's life" covers a wide range of cases. My recollection of this event, which is now long in the past, is that he was cold, calculating, did not value human life, and was quite comfortable with his kids moving on without their mother. He didn't just do something to her. He permanently damaged his kids, her family, and all of her friends. He made his decision knowing all of this.

Redemption? Possible I suppose, but don't make the mistake of looking at this from your perspective, because he's not like the rest of us.

  • > because he's not like the rest of us.

    He's human and killing other humans is something a humans can do, given the right circumstances.

    • Yes, but normally you have a fairly high bar to cross before you would resort to such an act, and it would be in the context of self defense or something equivalent. To kill your wife in a premeditated manner is not something most humans can do, even given the 'right' circumstances, most people would resolve a conflict at that level in a different way.

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    • > He's human and killing other humans is something a humans can do, given the right circumstances.

      Absolutely not. Average human needs to be ordered to kill and lied to and desensitized throughly to be able to do it. People who can kill out of their own initiative are not like the rest of us. Most cases of killings happen only because humans are so fragile in context of our technology. Intentional killing is something very unique.

    • you can't define human that broadly i guess

      what peop le want out of this word is a decent enough amount of compassion and altruism, something that would prevent that kind of harm to others (but i forgot if there was some heated arguments before he decided to step onto the murder path).

      unless passionate crime is what you had in mind

  • > because he's not like the rest of us

    I don't think we can know this, and there's no point speculating. I would say that the letter doesn't read as someone who's imperfectly simulating regret.

    • Of course - this entire thread is nothing but speculation.

      That said, the premeditated murder of someone, let alone your wife and children's mother, is not something that the average person is capable of. It is entirely different than the crimes one may commit out of rage, fear, or passion (i.e. when your amygdala is driving).

      I don't believe in capital punishment or lesser forms of punitive justice, but I have a hard time believing that psychopaths can ever be meaningfully rehabilitated. They are just humans that shipped with a fucked up firmware and that's all there is to that.

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  • To be quite frank, redemption isn't really for us to decide. His family, her family, they have a say in it.

    We only have a say insofar as we're part of the society that determines the laws that form the judges who will decide when it's appropriate to let him back into society.

Speaking in general terms, not to the specifics of Hans Reiser's crimes - I dont see why it wouldn't allow for redemption, people do stupid things and get blinded easily.

  • There’s “Stupid thing”.

    And then there’s murdering your ex, hiding her body over two days, lying to your children that she’d left for russia and they’d been abandoned, and only revealing the location of the body so you could plea down to second degree murder (a good 18 months later mind, we’re not talking quick change of heart).

    Oh and then filing a civil suit against pretty much the entire legal system, including the trial judges and your attorney.

    And when sued for damage by your children’s grandmother (on their behalf) assert that you killed your ex to protect your kids (which you had basically never been there for, which was the entire reason your wife left you).

    I’m not saying redemption is not possible, but I’d think some reflection and atonement would be the baseline, and I’m not aware of Hans Reiser having done any such work.

    • That he still wrote "in prison for killing my wife Nina" when she wasn't his wife anymore at the time indicates IMO that he still doesn't get it.

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  • Redemption requires that a person change and provide restitution. What Reiser did wasn't a stupid mistake, it was a calculated action that he took. His only mistake was getting caught. He didn't accidentally kill someone, or do so in the heat of a unique moment in his life. He decided that he could make his life easier by killing someone else and did so with no intention of facing the consequences of his actions.

    While I won't say redemption is impossible. He is going to have to serve his time and dedicate the rest of his life to helping others to even come close.

    • Since the prosecutor's office offered him a sentence of 3 years if he'd lead investigators to where he buried the body, the burden is on you IMHO to support your assertion because obviously if the informed professionals in the prosecutor's office thought it was a pre-planned murder they wouldn't've been that lenient. (In the US, pre-planned murders are routinely punished by life in prison without parole; California might be a little more lenient than the rest of the country, but not that much more lenient.)

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  • Drunk driving is a stupid thing people do. Murder is an act of evil.

  • > do stupid things

    Yes, we've all done stupid things we regret. But this is not it. This is way to bad to fit in the "stupid things" category.

    • I’ve said and done stupid things that hurt people I cared about. Anyone who’s been a teenager and yelled “I hate you, Dad!” in a moment of hormonal overload has.

      Ain’t killed anyone, though.

> ending another human's life leaves any possibility of redemption for a person

You realize the volunteer soldiers that enter a battle to kill other humans also fall under this scope? Yet in many countries we celebrate their return and service, despite what they may have done.

I agree these are not quite the same thing, in how a deed is carried out, but the end result is in fact the same.

  • It's called the department of defense for a reason, even if in plenty of cases the military is used offensively.

    Volunteer soldiers that go abroad to try to annex another country at the behest of their local overlord are looked at differently then volunteer soldiers that defend their country from annexation. It's not that the 'end result is in fact the same', it's that circumstances matter. In some cases killing another person is acceptable, in most others it is not.

    That's why we have so many very specific terms to describe the different situations in which one person kills another, and which of those applies is a big factor in whether we see the killer as having acted justifiably or not. Reiser is on the extreme side of that scale in terms of not having acted justifiably, then he compounded that by his stance during the subsequent trial.

    • > Volunteer soldiers that go abroad to try to annex another country at the behest of their local overlord are looked at differently then volunteer soldiers that defend their country from annexation.

      Are they? Americans seem to think very highly of their veterans ... who all fought in distant wars in countries that were not an serious immediate threat to the US.

  • > You realize the volunteer soldiers that enter a battle to kill other humans also fall under this scope?

    Yes. And I strongly believe there's something wrong with their brains. Not so wrong as with the brains of murderers. But to let someone's words override your innate blocks against killing is some weaknes of the brain, easily exploitable with disastrous consequences for humanity.

    It makes wars feasible.

    • I strongly disagree with you on that one. I can totally see myself volunteering to come to the defense of a country against invaders, I can absolutely not see myself volunteering (or even being conscripted) into helping some country to invade another (or to enlarge their territory).

      I'm a conscientious objector against military service which at the time that I did so still carried a prison sentence and even if I ended up not going to prison (through some luck and a sympathetic police officer) I was more than willing to do so rather than to be used as a tool. So that takes care of the second part of that statement, the first has so far not been put to the test (and let's hope it stays that way).

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    • i think if you take a look at human history, the animal kingdom, etc, you will find that in fact it is you who has something strange going on in your brain

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  • Why do you think that her being a mail order bride makes it less bad?

    If anything it just shows that he wanted to buy another human that he could control and, when it turned out not to be the case, he decided to kill her.

  • I am not going to touch on your other points as you clearly have decided your mind.

    > why a mistake he committed in personal life would make his file system a taboo to touch.

    He is no longer here to fix bugs or improve the file system, it is not that it's Taboo to touch per se. The benefits of ReiserFS are no longer clear compared to alternatives, there's a cost to including ReiserFS (which Reiser acknowledges), no other FS is associated with the name of a premeditated murderer.