Comment by _heimdall
1 year ago
We humans haven't even figured out how to discuss race, sex, or gender without it devolving into a tribal political fight. We shouldn't be surprised that algorithms we create and train on our own content will similarly be confused.
Its the exact same reason we won't solve the alignment problem and have basically given up on it. We can't align humans with ourselves, we'll absolutely never define some magic ruleset that ensures that an AI is always aligned with out best interests.
Idk that those discussions human problems TBH or at least I don’t think they are distributed equally. America has a special obsession with these discussions and is a loud voice in the room.
The US does seem to be particularly internally divided on these issues for some reason, but globally there are very different views.
Some countries feel strongly that women must cover themselves from head to toe while in public and can't drive cars while others have women in charge of their country. Some counties seem to believe they are best off isolating and "reeducating" portions of their population while other societies would consider such practices a crime against humanity.
There are plenty of examples, my only point was that humans fundamentally disagree on all kinds of topics to the point of honestly viewing and perceiving things differently. We can't expect machine algorithms to break out of that. When it comes to actual AI, we can't align it to humans when we can't first align humans.
Yeah, I agree with you and now believe my first point is wrong. I still think the issues aren’t distributed equally and you provide some good examples of that.
America is divided on race, sure, but other divisions exist in other countries just as strongly. South Korea is in a little bit of a gender war at the moment, and I'm not talking trans people, I mean literally demanding the removal of women from public life who are outed as "feminist".
> We humans
Americans*
The rest of the world is able to speak about those things
Are they? So excluding Americans, you think the rest of humanity would be able to have reasonable discussions on women's rights, gender issues in children, abortion, religion, etc?
And with regards to the second part of my comment, do you think that humans are generally aligned on these types of topics, or at a minimum what the solid line is that people should never cross?
Much of the rest of the world is overtly sexist and racist. If you’ve traveled anywhere at all you would know that the idea that the US is uniquely bad or even in the top ten is unmoored from reality.
We figured this out a long time ago. People are just bored and addicted to drama.
What did we figure out exactly? From where I sit, some countries are still pretty internally conflicted and globally different cultures have fundamentally different ideas.
So, what's the tribal political consensus on how many Asian women were present in the German army in 1943?
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39465250
Sorry I'm not quite sure what you were getting at there. I don't think anyone is arguing that the images are accurate or true to historical record. I'd love to see an example of that though, I don't know how anyone could try to say these examples of clearly broken images are historically right.