can you please substantiate in which points and how right he is? do you have experience with complex object graphs in Rust, direct or indirect experience about the community? thanks!
> That being said, there is an overwhelming force in the Rust community that when anyone mentions they're having problems with Rust the language on a fundamental level, the answer is "you just don't get it yet, I promise once you get good enough things will make sense". This is not just with Rust, if you try using ECS you're told the same thing. If you try to use Bevy you'll be told the same thing. If you try to make GUIs with whichever framework you choose (be it one of the reactive solutions or immediate mode), you'll be told the same thing. The problem you're having is only a problem because you haven't tried hard enough.
I've experienced this same feedback when I was struggling with Rust. One time when I posted in the Rust subreddit about it seeking help and talking about my struggles, I got the unhelpful response of "I believe in people" as a dismissive response to my struggles. Admittedly this was years ago and I've since moved on from Rust, but the blog post is dated from 2024-04-26, so it appears the issues with the language still remain
It's not specific to Rust at all, I remember hearing the same kind of talks when learning Java because I found OOP confusing.
And in fact most people saying that are right: most of the time people complain about stuff because they haven't internalized how it's suppose to work (as I was).
Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of valid criticism of Rust or Java (and OOP in particular), but at the same time in practice most of the people who complain aren't at the level of understanding and their criticisms aren't good.
Both are true at the same time:
- every programming language has terrible flaws.
- 99.9% of the criticisms you'd see online about a programming language in particular are garbage.
I think the loglog post is great and the community (as I perceived it) basically unanimously agreed that there are sharp corners and lots of room for improvement, especially in ergonomics.
Yep, communication is hard, and it's ... not an easy problem to be a volunteer based project, with a disavowed subreddit where most people get their first contact with the community.
I personally have no experience with Bevy or anything Rust 3D (well or any 3D really except for some tinkering with GLEW 10y ago :D), but the GUI problems are real. Documentation is scarce (no, vomiting types into a HTML page is not documentation, thx).
I wouldn't be surprised if it is true that the community is toxic, but I myself haven't really seen it
can you please substantiate in which points and how right he is? do you have experience with complex object graphs in Rust, direct or indirect experience about the community? thanks!
This huge blog post goes over some of the challenges of using Rust. https://loglog.games/blog/leaving-rust-gamedev/
For the community I'll pluck out this paragraph
> That being said, there is an overwhelming force in the Rust community that when anyone mentions they're having problems with Rust the language on a fundamental level, the answer is "you just don't get it yet, I promise once you get good enough things will make sense". This is not just with Rust, if you try using ECS you're told the same thing. If you try to use Bevy you'll be told the same thing. If you try to make GUIs with whichever framework you choose (be it one of the reactive solutions or immediate mode), you'll be told the same thing. The problem you're having is only a problem because you haven't tried hard enough.
I've experienced this same feedback when I was struggling with Rust. One time when I posted in the Rust subreddit about it seeking help and talking about my struggles, I got the unhelpful response of "I believe in people" as a dismissive response to my struggles. Admittedly this was years ago and I've since moved on from Rust, but the blog post is dated from 2024-04-26, so it appears the issues with the language still remain
It's not specific to Rust at all, I remember hearing the same kind of talks when learning Java because I found OOP confusing.
And in fact most people saying that are right: most of the time people complain about stuff because they haven't internalized how it's suppose to work (as I was).
Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of valid criticism of Rust or Java (and OOP in particular), but at the same time in practice most of the people who complain aren't at the level of understanding and their criticisms aren't good.
Both are true at the same time:
- every programming language has terrible flaws.
- 99.9% of the criticisms you'd see online about a programming language in particular are garbage.
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Thanks!
I think the loglog post is great and the community (as I perceived it) basically unanimously agreed that there are sharp corners and lots of room for improvement, especially in ergonomics.
Yep, communication is hard, and it's ... not an easy problem to be a volunteer based project, with a disavowed subreddit where most people get their first contact with the community.
I personally have no experience with Bevy or anything Rust 3D (well or any 3D really except for some tinkering with GLEW 10y ago :D), but the GUI problems are real. Documentation is scarce (no, vomiting types into a HTML page is not documentation, thx).