Comment by LoganDark
2 years ago
I wouldn't say all the Rust community is toxic. Then again, I'm not sure which Rust community he's referring to, I'm sure there are some toxic ones out there.
2 years ago
I wouldn't say all the Rust community is toxic. Then again, I'm not sure which Rust community he's referring to, I'm sure there are some toxic ones out there.
There was a big fight on Twitter last month because of a comment he made 3 years ago (https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/pull/6814). I think that's closely related.
How is that related? What does it have to do with Rust? If anything, I'd say it shows that social media (and microblogging platforms like Twitter and Mastodon in particular) tend to be politically charged, toxic, and dogmatic.
I can totally imagine someone from the Ladybird project reaching out for the Rust community channels and being harassed because of that silly PR.
I think it has nothing to do with Rust; probably someone first found it who just so happened to be part of the Rust community, and since the Rust community is full of 'the type of person who would be offended by such an interaction' (basically any queer person) there was naturally an explosion about it.
This is such a weird thread, sure it's a nit but grammatically a person of unknown sex should be either "he or she" or "they." And the latter is by far the preferred form by English writers regardless of political affiliation. It didn't become a political thing until Andreas made it political.
It would have taken two seconds to be like "+1 Good catch man, merged."
It could be an age thing. When I was taught grammar 40 plus years ago, for someone of indeterminate sex, “he” was taught as always appropriate, “he or she” was a somewhat clunky alternative that was situationally appropriate where you were stressing the gender neutrality, and “they” was just simply bad grammar which would get you bad marks. I’m honestly not sure when that changed.
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Seeing this right now single-handedly turned me off from the project. Of all the possible (and more plausible) conclusions that the maintainer could have had, they deduced it to be political (which is arguable) and immediately became extremely defensive. Apparently women don't exist. It's an absolute failure of one's responsibilities as a maintainer -- arguably as a person -- to treat someone's goodwill with such disregard.
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Everything is political, right?
Ladybird and Serenity have a policy of not allowing any sort of expression of or reference to someone's sexuality or gender identity, as this is deemed "divisive" or "politicising". Rust does... not have that.
You are purposefully taking a wild assumption to frame his character a certain way because of your politics.
This is literally the kind of toxic divisiveness he’s talking about. Can’t you see how this makes people want to have nothing to do with this issue?
You are right. I don't in fact know if that's what he means by calling the Rust community "toxic".
I've never seen anything like a bigoted word attributed to Andreas, by all appearences he is one of the most caring people in open source, and his character is obviously a big part of Serenity's success in attracting followers and contributers. But he does seem to be very insistent on "having nothing to do with the issue" (of inclusivity). His stated goal is to make a welcoming and inclusive environment, and ultimately I just think letting Pixie Ada put pride flags in xer bio will be more succesful at that than a don't ask, don't tell policy that seems mostly geared to not bother people who happen to fit in by default.
> not allowing any sort of expression of or reference to someone's … gender identity
So the use of he/she is banned by those projects?
Not like that. A pull request that replaced "he" in documentation with "they" was closed with the comment "This project is not the place to advocate your personal politics".
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if that is their stated policy, they don't seem to follow it very well since they use 'he' in documentation
Not anymore https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/pull/24648
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A community can be trans inclusive an toxic. Toxicity doesn't end at being queer or pro queer.
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Basically the one that gave origin to Rust Evangelism Strike Force meme.
It doesn't matter if only a portion is toxic, because that portion can easily poison the well all on their own for everybody.
It does matter because there is a portion that is toxic in about any sizeable community, so following that logic all wells would be easily poisoned
It matters how vocal and widespread that toxic portion is. In Rust's case, it's significantly larger and more visible and more toxic than I've seen in, say, the Python or C camps.
> so following that logic all wells would be easily poisoned
All camps are easily poisoned. What's important is how each community deals with the toxicity and whether they consider it acceptable or not. Rust's community has generally accepted this rabid part of it and tacitly accepted their behavior.
All wells are easily poisoned, though; Hyprland for example.
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Especially if that portion is in the official nonprofit associated with the language.
Eh, I don't personally consider the Rust Foundation to have anything to do with Rust The Language. I consider "the community" to be everyone who doesn't have official ties to the language. Is this incorrect?