Comment by n4r9

1 year ago

There are several uses of the phrases "he or she" and "himself or herself" in the linked text. I suspect it originally said "he" and "himself". Which would have made sense in a mostly-male audience (the Navy at the time).

It has not happened in every instance. Probably for readability, e.g. consider how dense this paragraph would become:

> The person who behaves defensively, even though he or she also gives some attention to the common task, devotes an appreciable portion of energy to defending himself or herself. Besides talking about the topic, he thinks about how he appears to others, how he may be seen more favorably, how he may win, dominate, impress or escape punishment, and/or how he may avoid or mitigate a perceived attack.

> Which would have made sense in a mostly-male audience (the Navy at the time).

Also, use the male form for when you meant both men and women was at that time the prescribed grammatical "style" (as in "A Chicago Manual of Style").

Personally I think just switching, or using "she" consistently, is just as good:

"The person who behaves defensively, even though she also gives some attention to the common task..."

If you really want to be generic, I think using them/they is a much better option:

"The person who behaves defensively, even though they also give some attention to the common task, devotes an appreciable portion of energy to defending themselves. Besides talking about the topic, they think about how they appear to others, how they may be seen more favorably, how they may win..."

People will complain that this is "wrong", but:

1. As you say, the prescription to use "he or she" is clumsy and awkward.

2. It's been in use in English since the 1400s, and has been used in published works by authors like Lord Byron and Jane Austen [1].

It's convenient and well-established; I don't see any reason to continue forbidding it in formal writing.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they

  • > using "she" consistently good

    Just for clarification: What if the article has a negative bias, i.e. an article about criminals, do you still suggest using "she"?

    • The example they give already has a negative connotation: someone that is behaving defensively.

  • Totally agree that "they" strikes a good balance of readability and inclusivity.

  • > Also, use the male form for when you meant both men and women was at that time the prescribed grammatical "style" (as in "A Chicago Manual of Style").

    This was still taught in US primary and secondary schools through at least the early '00s.

  • > People will complain that this is "wrong"

    I think most such "people" (those who oppose the use of singular they) would limit their opposition to a particular subset of usage, which is pointed out in the Wikipedia article you linked to as follows:

    > In the early 21st century, use of singular they with known individuals emerged

    I doubt they'd be opposed to the centuries-old usage being proposed in this thread, which Wikipedia mentions like so:

    > to refer to an unknown person

    But who knows!