Comment by tonymet
3 days ago
Ferry service in the Puget Sound (Seattle Area) has suffered due to delays with electric ferries. The state refuses to maintain their existing fleet. Every line has frequent delays, and the international route which was suspended for “a couple years” in 2021 is now delayed until 2030.
The frustration people have with electric isn’t the technology – it’s the dogmatic commitment to technology that isn’t quite ready, based on false promises of it solving climate change .
It looks like that is a conversion and retrofit of ships that were already unmaintainable: https://washingtonstatestandard.com/briefs/conversion-of-was...
Modernizing all the control systems etc is the nightmare. The ferries were already electric- all ferries are; they have diesel engines driving generators which drive electric motors. They still have the exact same generators running the same motors. The batteries are installed and ready even though they won't be used until the port is electrified years from now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkgT9Z8Z2RU
Sure but you have to think of the entire system which includes staff, training , charging infrastructure, power supply, possibly fuel for the charging infrastructure, backup/redundancy, maintenance, parts / distribution etc. An entire infrastructure network that had been operating for decades.
Diesel is more than just fuel, it’s an entire system.
I also heard the power companies just don't have the extra power to supply the ferries. The terminals need to be redesigned to receive and emit that much juice.
Meanwhile Norway has 80 electric commuter ferries in service. https://businessnorway.com/articles/norway-showcases-award-w...
The Norwegian ferries appear to be much smaller than the Washington state ferries.
Here is the largest e-ferry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-ferry_Ellen
And a guide to the WA fleet: https://wsdot.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2021-10/WSF-FleetGu...
> Here is the largest e-ferry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-ferry_Ellen
Norway's largest e-ferry is three times larger. https://www.electrive.com/2021/03/02/worlds-largest-electric...
4 replies →
your point?
I don't know what you mean by dogmatic. Alternatives to electric are still the primary workhorses in most industries, but falling prices for batteries mean they are rapidly becoming more competitive.
My experience is that people don't have a good grasp of how effective electric is, and think it's somehow worse than the alternatives and winning via subsidies, which is not really the case today. Likewise for things like solar.
I imagine many businesses are hoping to put off their next replacement cycles for more effective, cheaper technology rather than incur big Capex expenses on soon to be obsolete and more expensive technologies.
dogmatic in this case refers to tolerating critical service disruptions despite strong signal that electric is not yet ready, when you could easily continue service with diesel, the mature technology.
I've traveled on a battery electric ship in Norway, quite a few years ago. It recharged while docked loading passengers using two high voltage high current cables slung from a crane.
This sounds like a great way to keep consumer e-vehicles from hogging charger spots.
The frustration should be that in the US management is functionally incompetent.
Proposal: If we do it this way we won't have to spend as much money.
Counter: That's really hinky and it probably will blow up in our face.
Proposal: Yes but you can't prove it will. So it's what we're going to do.
Later: Blows up and goes over budget and takes two to three times longer.
It also doesn't help that the bid/contract process is skewed to select the lowest bidder.
You can always forget to add some margin here or there, or fail to plan for problems that might pop up. It's easy to game the system because sunk costs make it nearly impossible to switch once you've started.
you forgot the part where "Proposal" has been promoted twice based on a hurried launch and only "Counter" is left to take the blame for the messups.
this? https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/ele...
interesting they're struggling to get ship builders to bid.
Seems like a lesson learned is to build new boats until service is over capacity before refitting old boats where the unknown unknowns lurk.
Technology won't become ready without users unfortunately.
Hackernews needs a better way to highlight stimulating comments. This one generated a healthy discussion, still 0 points.
I advocated for a controversial ranking before and it’s still relevant.
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