Comment by mikeyouse
1 year ago
Considering that these are legal sales between law-abiding adults, the ATF doesn't care at all. There's the perennial "they're taking all our guns!" discourse that serves to misinform everyone, and then there are basic facts that mostly pierce all the nonsense.
https://trac.syr.edu/reports/733/include/figure1.png
"Rogue rampage" indeed.. almost 10% higher than pre-covid Trump convictions and about the same level as we saw under GWB! Then again, the average person convicted in 2023 had >2 prior convictions and over 7 prior arrests so maybe these are actually just criminals? Wish everyone would decide if we should enforce laws or not.
https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/fact-sheet/fact-sheet-fa...
The ATF changed the rules on private sales. If you make a penny on the private sale, you need an FFL.
https://www.gunowners.org/new-atf-rule-you-can-go-to-jail-fo...
https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF12679
https://myjrpaper.com/node/7745
They killed this guy over it.
https://saf.org/atf-swat-raid-that-killed-arkansas-man-raise...
All this was legal a few years ago. ATF decided to change the rules.
Also, they wanted to completely ban private sales, but a whistleblower blew the whistle and hopefully stopped them.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/atf-whistleblowers-sound-al...
So there's all that.
I'm sorry you buy into all the misleading nonsense from the prepper gun lobby..
They did widen the definition of dealers, but it's still "a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business to predominantly earn a profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms."
So casually selling guns to friends and family is fine and doesn't require a license or a background check unless your state requires it.
> They killed this guy over it. https://saf.org/atf-swat-raid-that-killed-arkansas-man-raise...
He had bought over 150 guns in the past 3 years, signed forms for each of them that he was buying them for his own use, and then immediately turned around and sold them, several to undercover Feds. He'd post up at gun shows with a table full of guns and then sell them for cash without paperwork. 6 of the guns he sold were found at crime scenes.. the result of the raid was unfortunate but the dude was exactly who should be targeted by laws like this.
Seriously, read the search affidavit if you think it was somehow inappropriate to target him: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Vjer4Tr0SJhe6ZzkUDgkjaho4PH...
Ok I see the final rule does add definitions of "personal collection," so that would cover me. "Occasionally," is not defined, so that's vague. What if I sell 5 at once? What if I sell 1 a week for 5 weeks, is that still occasional? Up to the ATF to decide.
After reading the affidavit, it was written before the final rule. The affidavit was written 3/6/24 and the final rule didn't take effect until 30 days after 4/10/24. How do you square that?
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/final-rule-definition-engaged-b...
From the affidavit:
"9. Your Affiant knows the term "dealer", as defined in Title i8 USC 921(a)(11) of the GCA, means (A) any person engaged in the business of selling firearms at wholesale or retail; or (B) any person engaged in the business of repairing firearrns or ofmaking or fitting special ba:rels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms; or (C) any person who is a pawnbroker"
Change of the rule:
"Section 12002 of the BSCA broadened the definition of “engaged in the business” under 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(21)(C) to all persons who intend to “predominantly earn a profit” from wholesale or retail dealing in firearms by eliminating the requirement that a person's “principal objective” of purchasing and reselling firearms must include both “livelihood and profit.” The statute now provides that, as applied to a dealer in firearms, the term
“engaged in the business” means “a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business to predominantly earn a profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms.” However, the BSCA definition does not include “a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms.” 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(21)(C)."
This matters because his firearm sales weren't his livelihood and could be argued it was a hobby. He made, I believe, $250,000 working for the state of Arkansas as his livelihood.
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