Comment by dan-robertson
1 month ago
To me it seems like a reasonable feature that was, for the most part, implemented with great consideration for user privacy, though maybe I’m too trusting of the description. I mostly think this article is rage-bait and one should be wary of ‘falling for it’ when it shows up on hacker news in much the same way that one should be wary when rage-bait articles show up in tabloids or on Facebook.
It seems likely to me that concerns like those of the article or some of the comments in this thread are irrelevant to Apple’s bottom line. A concern some customers may actually have is data usage, but I guess it’s likely that the feature is off if in low data mode.
I wonder if this particular sort of issue would be solved by some setting for ‘privacy defaults’ or something where journalists/activists/some corporate IT departments/people who write articles like the OP can choose something to cause OS updates to set settings to values that talk less on the network. Seems hard to make a UI that is understandable. There is already a ‘lockdown mode’ for iOS. I don’t know if it affects this setting.
Literally all Apple needed to do was not have it enabled by default. Sending stuff over the network without asking is why trust in Apple is reduced further and further.
Not enabling something by default is pretty close to not having it at all. Accessibility is a reasonable exception where it makes sense to have the features even though they are off by default.
I mostly think the reaction to this article is overblown because it appeals popular ideas here about big tech. I think one should be wary of Apple’s claims about privacy: the reason is competition with Google and so they want users to be distrustful of the kinds of features that Google are better at implementing (I don’t want to say Apple isn’t trying to do the right thing either – if you look at accessibility, the competition was very bad for a lot of things for a long time and Apple was good despite the lack of commercial pressure). But I think one should also be wary of articles that make you angry and tell you what you suspected all along. (eg see the commenter elsewhere who doesn’t care about the details and is just angry). It’s much easier to spot this kind of rage-bait piece when it is targeting ‘normal people’ rather than the in-group.
> But I think one should also be wary of articles that make you angry and tell you what you suspected all along. (eg see the commenter elsewhere who doesn’t care about the details and is just angry). It’s much easier to spot this kind of rage-bait piece when it is targeting ‘normal people’ rather than the in-group.
The article was published by an Apple developer and user, i.e., myself, on my personal blog, which is followed mainly by other Apple developers and users. My blog comprises my own personal observations, insights, and opinions. If you see any rage, it would be my own personal rage, and not "bait". Bait for what?
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> Not enabling something by default is pretty close to not having it at all
And I care "why" exactly? It was turned on by default on my phone without my consent, it's a privacy violation, nothing else matters in that case.
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Apple already communicates home by default. They never even fixed the macOS app signature check that they said they would, and yet people still choose to use the OS.
(And to be clear I’m not even bothered by the signature check)
At a certain point you have to figure that they realize it doesn’t matter short of some government entity forcing them to stop. At the very least the protections they put in place (homomorphic encryption, etc) are more than I think most other companies would ever bother doing.
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The OP is evidence. My phone had it turned on which I think is evidence. Together this feels like reasonably strong evidence but maybe something even stronger is easy to find. Vaguely related: https://markxu.com/strong-evidence
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It’s a reasonable feature, but should nevertheless require opt-in by the user. The opt-ins could certainly be bundled at install/upgrade time to reduce annoyance.
One thing particularly not clear to me is weather ios scan all data in the phone and send it to be part of public index or not. I see from how the feature works from the UI it seems it's not. If the feature activated by user action does this still constitute as phoning home?
if anyone else had done this then yes probably it's reasonable feature done reasonably. The problem is Apple has spent tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars advertising that they don't do things like this. That stuff stays on your iPhone unlike that other OS run by yucky advertising company. Apple would never siphon your data, because they care and you aren't the product.
Shit like this, reasonable in isolation or not, undermines that story completely. If they are so willing to just outright lie on a massive billboard, what else will they do when profits demand it?