Comment by scubbo
7 months ago
> a cargo cult works
But...it doesn't? That's the whole definitional point of it. If action A _does_ lead to outcome B, then "if we do A, then B will happen" is not a cargo cult perspective, it's just fact.
7 months ago
> a cargo cult works
But...it doesn't? That's the whole definitional point of it. If action A _does_ lead to outcome B, then "if we do A, then B will happen" is not a cargo cult perspective, it's just fact.
Sorry, the quotes around "work" were implicit. I thought there was enough context to make that clear. That just because some things actually work doesn't mean it works for the reason it actually works.
This is what I meant by cargo cults working. Where there is a _belief_ in a causal connection where there is none. The Melanesia really did believe there was a causal connection between their actions would cause cargo to return. It's not just about appearance. It is about not understanding the actual causal chain and misinterpreting the causal variables.
Measurement is HARD. It is very common that if you do A then B will happen YET A is not the cause of B. Here's a trivial example: a mouse presses a button and it gets fed. In reality, the mouse presses a button and a human feeds the mouse. It is not the button. It may even be impossible for the mouse to know this. But if the human leaves, the mouse can press the button all they want and they will not get fed. I hope you can see how this can happen in far more complex ways. As the chain of events gets longer and more complex you an probably see why it is actually a really common issue. Because you have literal evidence that your actions are causal while they are not.
For actual cargo cults, yes. Cargo Cult Development just used the name to invoke a comparison..when CCD is being practiced, devs are doing mystical steps because it's part of the incantation. They wouldn't keep doing them if the project then never worked.
Your definition is extremely unlikely to ever be practiced, because those developers would be fired for never getting anything working, and so it's not really a helpful one imo.
Concrete examples of what I think actually counts as cargo culting:
* Incorporating TDD because it's a "best practice".
* Using Kubernetes because Google does it.
* Moving onto AWS because it's what all the cool companies are doing.
The key thing that makes cargo cult development a cargo cult is that it's practices and rituals adopted without any concrete theory for what a bit is supposed to do for you in your context. You're just doing it because you've seen it done before.
This is different than small scale copypasta where people know exactly what they're trying to accomplish but don't take the time in any given instance to slow down and re-analyze why this bit of code looks the way that it does. They know that it works, and that's enough in that moment.
If we're going to go back to the original analogies that started it all, what you're describing as cargo cult would be more similar to islanders using machinery that was left behind without knowing how it works or how to maintain it. They don't strictly need to know that in order to gain actual concrete value from the machinery, but it would be better in the long term if they knew how to maintain it.
Right, yes, exactly this. Using a tool or process without full understanding of its operation, or how to use it in different ways, is not _ideal_ - but it's a different thing (similar! but different) from "doing something just because everyone else is doing it". A Makefile-copier might not know the full stack of concepts that undergird their working configuration - but they do know (in the "true justifiable knowledge" sense) that it _is_ a working configuration, and they know why they're adopting it.
Hmm, fair, my definition certainly doesn't apply to CCD ("we do it because Google does it") - but I still maintain (as a child commenter elaborates) that there's a difference between "the reason I'm doing this is because other people do it" and "the reason I'm doing this is to achieve my given aim. I don't the exact functionality by which this leads to the aim being achieved, and I might not be able to modify this to achieve other aims - but I do know that it will get me where I want to go".
Neither is ideal - but, the latter is much less harmful IMO.
I'd say it is true for both. There's evidence that the actions cause the events. They correlate. It's why people start doing the actions in the first place. The exact reasoning you use, if it didn't "work" (appear to work) then the cult dies off pretty fast (and they do). Rationally irrational. It's good to be aware of because with high complexity systems it is easy to fall into these types of issues. Where you are doing A and you _believe_ are causing B, but there is no real relation.