Comment by runako
4 days ago
Freeze frame:
> the stop lines are out of frame
Is the car in the freeze frame in a legal position given the red light? It would appear not.
4 days ago
Freeze frame:
> the stop lines are out of frame
Is the car in the freeze frame in a legal position given the red light? It would appear not.
There's no way to know from a single frame. We would need to know the sequence of events.
It's not against California vehicle code to be in an intersection when the light is red. It's not even necessarily against vehicle code to be in an intersection when the light is red for you and green for perpindicular traffic (although it's an imminent hazard, so you better have a good reason).
To show a red light violation, you need a datestamped image showing the vehicle behind the stop line with a red light showing, and a near in time image of it in the intersection on red, and probably another one to show that it didn't make an allowed right on red. Really, you also need evidence that the red light was steady, and not a flashing red light which would indicate four way stop and the driver could proceed after stopping. Typically, you wouldn't see red showing on both directions at the same time in a flashing red situation, but cameras are fickle.
Adding on, the frame before clearly shows a legal entry.
https://imgur.com/a/z7ZSvtD
The vehicle entered the intersection, by crossing the first line of the pedestrian crossing which is out of frame, while the light is yellow. The exit was clear when the vehicle entered the intersection, so there's no violation there, and it may proceed through the intersection. Cross traffic doesn't enter the intersection for a few seconds after it clears; and there are no pedestrians engaged with the intersection either, so there's no safety concern. The next car that goes through the yellow is fully in the intersection on yellow, so there's no question of a violation there, although again they were in the intersection on red although I think that one cleared before the perpendicular traffic got a green, unlike the vehicle in the images.
There is another line before. We don't really see the entire intersection.
Yes, you are correct. That's why I specifically did not address the car's entry into the intersection.
Given the red light, is the car in a legal position in the freeze frame?
Yes. I do not understand why this is so misunderstood in the comments.
This picture is LEGAL in most US states as long as the car entered the intersection ON A GREEN OR YELLOW light.
4 replies →
The author is pissed off about the design of the intersection. If you have to litigate bullshit like this, surely you see, well, the intersection is poorly designed.
You are also litigating whether or not it's legal. A lot of traditions of California driving are legal and really dangerous. My dude, CVC doesn't even apply in a private parking lot for example, so you can accidentally kill somebody in one and legally face no moving violations. "Legal" is not an interesting criteria at all, it's misleading.
On the other hand, whether the driver was legally or illegally passing through the intersection is also irrelevant for safety: the fact is that the video clearly shows that the driver didn't put anyone's lives at risk this time, neither themself, any pedestrians, nor any incoming cars.
My problem is that author doesn't seem to understand the traffic laws and wrongly says cars ran a red light. I'm not interested in his opinion after that.
If you are going to put something on the internet about bad design you should make sure you understand it first.
1 reply →