"Social media showing people how incredibly biased traditional media is towards Israel"
I learned how incredibly biased social media is against Israel.
"Polls showing people now recognizing Israel are the bad guys and Hamas are the good guys"
The same Hamas that murdered over 200 young people at a concert on Oct 7 2023? And paraded the dead body of a woman like a hunting trophy. The one thing that Hamas is NOT is "the good guys". They are utterly amoral Islamic supremacists.
I just have to shake my head and wonder how the heck people arrive at such completely insane worldviews. Justifying the coldblooded slaughter of civilians is pretty despicable. The young German woman Hamas paraded around like a hunting trophy was neither a militant or a reservist. The 6 year old child whose parents Hamas murdered and then was abducted was neither a militant or a reservist. Calling Gaza a concentration camp is so dishonest it would would make Goebbels proud. Israel left Gaza, Hamas took over and promptly started mass suicide bombings. Israel built a wall and this stopped most suicide bombings. Hamas doesn't seem to understand how cause and effect work.
Israel's history and present is the manifestation of amoral jewish supremacists[0] trying to ethnically cleanse Palestine by any means which naturally manifested itself in the current genocide[1] of Palestinians. Early Zionist leaders were outright racists using the Hebrew N-Word "kushim" to describe the native Palestinians which they were trying to ethnically cleanse:
"Neither Zangwill nor Weizmann intended these demographic assessments in a literal fashion. They did not mean that there were no people in Palestine, but that there were no people worth considering within the framework of the notions of European supremacy that then held sway. In this connection, a comment by Weizmann to Arthur Ruppin, the head of the colonization department of the Jewish Agency, is particularly revealing. When asked by Ruppin about the Palestinian Arabs, Weizmann replied: "The British told us that there are there some hundred thousands negroes [Kushim] and for those there is no value.”[2]
> And also that TRUMP turned out to be the lesser of the evils.
You’re talking about the guy who moved the US embassy into contested territory essentially justifying Israel’s expansion? Something no previous president would even consider because they knew it would result in an escalation in the region and set peace talks back even further? That’s the guy you think is looking out for Palestinians?
Yeah Biden's middle east policy is exactly a continuation of what Trump set to be the standard. It was trump that started things like moving the embassy and bombing Iran. Trump basically did all the things the Democrats WISH they could've done but didn't think they could pull off. Instead they get to blame it on "crazy old Trump" and then completely run with the exact same foreign policy
There is no lesser of two evils. We don't get to vote on the war machine
> people now recognizing Israel are the bad guys and Hamas are the good guys
Hamas kidnapped and tortured innocent civilians, and has help them in captivity for `~18 months, and you think they are the good guys? There are no good guys.
Yes. Those specific people that killed militants and reservists dancing next to a concentration camp are the good guys.
It’s very white-Eurocentric to think of Hamas as the bad guys. The vast majority of the Mideast don’t believr they are
Or do you believe it is acceptable to have a festival next to a concentration camp? The same concentration camp where a few years earlier guards sniped and killed over 200 unarmed civilians from three other side of the fence while video taping and celebrating them being killed and posting on social media said videos.
Why? I think most of us can recognize they're not necessarily good by our standards, so they're not the good guys. But they are the ones resisting a genocidal apartheid colonialist state, so they're at least better than the Israelis. So if we call Israel the bad guys, that leaves Hamas as... the guys.
"But they are the ones resisting a genocidal apartheid colonialist state,"
How exactly does killing over 200 people at a concert and parading the body of a woman like a hunting trophy and killing the parents of a 6 month old baby and then abducting that baby accomplish this?
They murdered 1,000 civilians in cold blood. They raped, kidnapped and sacked indiscriminately. Arab, Jew, Druze, Thai guest worker. Then they rained missiles indiscriminately on towns and had the gall to complain about getting bombed and besiged.
Let's be clear here: The IDF may have committed war crimes by not being careful about targeting or cancelling convoys that had contraband. Hamas deliberately targets civilians and always has, murdering them in cafes, shuls, buses, community centers and hotels around the world .
The NYTimes widely referenced but debunked story “Screams without words” about alleged rapes on October 7 was co-authored by a literal IDF intelligence agent. Also the Atlantic Editor-in-Chief is IDF. More importantly, why are there so few Muslim newsroom editors and reporters jn the US media vs Jewish editors and reporters?
Polls immediately after Oct 7 showed college students support Hamas more than Israel, and that’s before a year of live-streamed genocide. (Fixed missing word)
It's a stretch to call Screams Without Words debunked. There were fierce attempts to poke holes in it and frame it as debunked, but no real evidence of any inaccuracies. The NYT stands by it: "We remain confident in the accuracy of our reporting and stand by the team’s investigation which was rigorously reported, sourced and edited."
>The NYTimes widely referenced but debunked story “Screams without words” about alleged rapes on October 7 was co-authored by a literal IDF intelligence agent.
Are you talking about Anat Schwartz? Based on her wikipedia article she served in the "Israeli Air Force intelligence division" at some point, but not when she wrote the article. I guess this technically counts as "literal IDF intelligence agent", but is at least somewhat misleading. You wouldn't call American journalist in his 40s "a Marine", just because he did a tour of duty in his 20s.
> Also the Atlantic Editor-in-Chief is IDF.
Same issue as above.
>Polls immediately after Oct 7 showed college students support Hamas more than Israel, and that’s before a year of live-streamed genocide
This isn't the same as "Hamas are the good guys". Specifically, not every conflict must have a "good guy" and a "bad guy". I don't support US's invasion of Iraq, but that doesn't make Saddam Hussein the good guy. Likewise, me thinking Saddam Hussein is a tyrant doesn't make the US the good guy for invading Iraq.
Tons of stories I've seen on CNN or BBC or CBC about this war had Muslim (edit: or Arab) authors and were very anti-Israel in bias. Traditional media is incredibly biased against Israel which is not surprising given its general left leaning. But I'm sure you've found some bubble that more out there.
Random examples of CNN Arab reporters on the topic:
Biden utterly failed at getting a ceasefire. Bibi waited for the election hoping that trump would give him free rein. Instead Trump said end the war(and probably also said you can go ahead and annex the West Bank is exchange).
There is no way for someone to pay attention to the Biden administration over the last year and come away with the impression that they were actually trying. Every single (rare) time they pretended to draw a line Israel violated it blatantly and Biden just ignored it. They weren't even credibly pretending to try.
> Meanwhile Biden's actions has resulted in a ceasefire.
This war happened under Biden with the first ceasefire deal being rejected which that prolonged the war until the Democrats lost the election to Trump.
Under his presidency, he failed to prevent this war and failed to stop the Russia-Ukraine war from happening only which is why he lost a second term.
Had he or Harris won the election, this war would be still going on today.
This is what happens when there is an unchecked Affirmative Action program for zionists in many industries like tech and Media.
Microsoft employees get fired for calling for a ceasefire meanwhile their Israeli counterparts get to gloat about continued slaughter of children with a mere investigation, in Apple, they provide extra support for employees doing time for the IDF while Palestinian employees get fired and Muslim support slack channels get shut down.
Unfortunately, the Contrarian Club in the tech industry is yet to reckon with the pernicious AA program for zionists meanwhile bleating about the joke of meritocracy and crying about H1Bs.
It's the zionist affirmative action that gives unlimited second chances for clearly fireable offenses (if it were anyone else) in a cancel-culture prone ecosystem like tech and media. In contrast, people on HN get their comments cancelled just for calling them out on it as we can see from the mass-downvoting/flagging/deading in this thread. Interesting behaviour from the Chatham House rules/anti-snowflake/AI Killer drone funding/free speech+tiktok ban Certified Contrarian™ brigade.
The holocaust justifiers truly are the most gormless people who lack basic comprehension. Where did I say the AA program captured 100% of jobs? And did you read which industries I mentioned? Probably not, I mentioned tech and media. Cornell is a an academic institution, many people know this actually. Academia is not Tech and media industry. The definition of Academia is the environment or community concerned with the pursuit of research, education, and scholarship. It should go without saying but unfortunately implicit things like the definition of Academia and "don't commit or justify a genocide" is too high a bar for some.
Amazing that such overt antisemitism is allowed to remain up. Substituting "Zionist" for "Jew" doesn't make it not antisemitism (yes, 90% of Jews are self-identifying zionists, and these are classic antisemitic tropes).
Hamas’ main goal is killing every single Israeli. Israel defends themselves. Hamas are the good guys? Honestly this take being seriously considered is a truly horrible sign for dem electability. The vast majority of Americans see right through it.
"Social media showing people how incredibly biased traditional media is towards Israel"
I learned how incredibly biased social media is against Israel.
"Polls showing people now recognizing Israel are the bad guys and Hamas are the good guys"
The same Hamas that murdered over 200 young people at a concert on Oct 7 2023? And paraded the dead body of a woman like a hunting trophy. The one thing that Hamas is NOT is "the good guys". They are utterly amoral Islamic supremacists.
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I just have to shake my head and wonder how the heck people arrive at such completely insane worldviews. Justifying the coldblooded slaughter of civilians is pretty despicable. The young German woman Hamas paraded around like a hunting trophy was neither a militant or a reservist. The 6 year old child whose parents Hamas murdered and then was abducted was neither a militant or a reservist. Calling Gaza a concentration camp is so dishonest it would would make Goebbels proud. Israel left Gaza, Hamas took over and promptly started mass suicide bombings. Israel built a wall and this stopped most suicide bombings. Hamas doesn't seem to understand how cause and effect work.
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Israel's history and present is the manifestation of amoral jewish supremacists[0] trying to ethnically cleanse Palestine by any means which naturally manifested itself in the current genocide[1] of Palestinians. Early Zionist leaders were outright racists using the Hebrew N-Word "kushim" to describe the native Palestinians which they were trying to ethnically cleanse: "Neither Zangwill nor Weizmann intended these demographic assessments in a literal fashion. They did not mean that there were no people in Palestine, but that there were no people worth considering within the framework of the notions of European supremacy that then held sway. In this connection, a comment by Weizmann to Arthur Ruppin, the head of the colonization department of the Jewish Agency, is particularly revealing. When asked by Ruppin about the Palestinian Arabs, Weizmann replied: "The British told us that there are there some hundred thousands negroes [Kushim] and for those there is no value.”[2]
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_supremacy
[1] https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/11/un-special-c...
[2] Weizmann, quoted by Arthur Ruppin in: Yosef Heller, Bama'avak Lamedinah , Jerusalem, 1984, p.140.
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> And also that TRUMP turned out to be the lesser of the evils.
You’re talking about the guy who moved the US embassy into contested territory essentially justifying Israel’s expansion? Something no previous president would even consider because they knew it would result in an escalation in the region and set peace talks back even further? That’s the guy you think is looking out for Palestinians?
> And also that TRUMP turned out to be the lesser of the evils.
This is a pretty shortsighted perspective. At least wait 4 more years :).
Yeah Biden's middle east policy is exactly a continuation of what Trump set to be the standard. It was trump that started things like moving the embassy and bombing Iran. Trump basically did all the things the Democrats WISH they could've done but didn't think they could pull off. Instead they get to blame it on "crazy old Trump" and then completely run with the exact same foreign policy
There is no lesser of two evils. We don't get to vote on the war machine
> people now recognizing Israel are the bad guys and Hamas are the good guys
Hamas kidnapped and tortured innocent civilians, and has help them in captivity for `~18 months, and you think they are the good guys? There are no good guys.
Yes. Those specific people that killed militants and reservists dancing next to a concentration camp are the good guys.
It’s very white-Eurocentric to think of Hamas as the bad guys. The vast majority of the Mideast don’t believr they are
Or do you believe it is acceptable to have a festival next to a concentration camp? The same concentration camp where a few years earlier guards sniped and killed over 200 unarmed civilians from three other side of the fence while video taping and celebrating them being killed and posting on social media said videos.
> Polls showing people now recognizing Israel are the bad guys and Hamas are the guys
Was the second “guys” supposed to have an adjective attached to it?
Why? I think most of us can recognize they're not necessarily good by our standards, so they're not the good guys. But they are the ones resisting a genocidal apartheid colonialist state, so they're at least better than the Israelis. So if we call Israel the bad guys, that leaves Hamas as... the guys.
I ask because it’s not something you generally see. Even your statement added an ellipsis as punctuation.
But no matter; the parent comment was updated and they clarified their opinion by adding “good”.
"But they are the ones resisting a genocidal apartheid colonialist state,"
How exactly does killing over 200 people at a concert and parading the body of a woman like a hunting trophy and killing the parents of a 6 month old baby and then abducting that baby accomplish this?
They murdered 1,000 civilians in cold blood. They raped, kidnapped and sacked indiscriminately. Arab, Jew, Druze, Thai guest worker. Then they rained missiles indiscriminately on towns and had the gall to complain about getting bombed and besiged.
Let's be clear here: The IDF may have committed war crimes by not being careful about targeting or cancelling convoys that had contraband. Hamas deliberately targets civilians and always has, murdering them in cafes, shuls, buses, community centers and hotels around the world .
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>due to literal IDF agents running newsrooms across the country
source?
>Polls showing people now recognizing Israel are the bad guys and Hamas are the guys
Are you missing a word here? Or is this intentional?
The NYTimes widely referenced but debunked story “Screams without words” about alleged rapes on October 7 was co-authored by a literal IDF intelligence agent. Also the Atlantic Editor-in-Chief is IDF. More importantly, why are there so few Muslim newsroom editors and reporters jn the US media vs Jewish editors and reporters?
Polls immediately after Oct 7 showed college students support Hamas more than Israel, and that’s before a year of live-streamed genocide. (Fixed missing word)
It's a stretch to call Screams Without Words debunked. There were fierce attempts to poke holes in it and frame it as debunked, but no real evidence of any inaccuracies. The NYT stands by it: "We remain confident in the accuracy of our reporting and stand by the team’s investigation which was rigorously reported, sourced and edited."
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A UN envoy says there are ‘reasonable grounds’ to believe Hamas committed sexual violence on Oct. 7
https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-un-rape-oct7-...
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>The NYTimes widely referenced but debunked story “Screams without words” about alleged rapes on October 7 was co-authored by a literal IDF intelligence agent.
Are you talking about Anat Schwartz? Based on her wikipedia article she served in the "Israeli Air Force intelligence division" at some point, but not when she wrote the article. I guess this technically counts as "literal IDF intelligence agent", but is at least somewhat misleading. You wouldn't call American journalist in his 40s "a Marine", just because he did a tour of duty in his 20s.
> Also the Atlantic Editor-in-Chief is IDF.
Same issue as above.
>Polls immediately after Oct 7 showed college students support Hamas more than Israel, and that’s before a year of live-streamed genocide
This isn't the same as "Hamas are the good guys". Specifically, not every conflict must have a "good guy" and a "bad guy". I don't support US's invasion of Iraq, but that doesn't make Saddam Hussein the good guy. Likewise, me thinking Saddam Hussein is a tyrant doesn't make the US the good guy for invading Iraq.
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> Hamas are the good guys
The group that kidnapped, murdered, and tortured a bunch of kids at a music festival? That Hamas? The “good guys”?!
Tons of stories I've seen on CNN or BBC or CBC about this war had Muslim (edit: or Arab) authors and were very anti-Israel in bias. Traditional media is incredibly biased against Israel which is not surprising given its general left leaning. But I'm sure you've found some bubble that more out there.
Random examples of CNN Arab reporters on the topic:
https://www.cnn.com/profiles/irene-nasser
https://www.cnn.com/profiles/jomana-karadsheh
https://www.cnn.com/2024/11/13/europe/us-israel-aid-gaza-ins...
There is no way more American Jewish teens support Hamas than Israel. Your "unbiased" media seized on to one question of this survey: https://mosaicunited.org/mosaic-teen-israel-survey-antisemit...
Where even this "sympathy" question definitely does not agree with what you're saying.
There are also no polls showing people saying Israel are the bad guys. e.g. in the US: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/10/01/slight-up...
> Trump turned out to be the lesser of the evils
This is based purely on his word which isn't worth all that much.
Meanwhile Biden's actions has resulted in a ceasefire.
Biden had 400 days to take those actions- coincidentally, he took them at the moment he has basically no power any more?
Which is not to say I trust Trump. Afaik he's a fanatic Israel supporter. We'll have to wait and see what happens to pass any judgement on this.
You had 9 months to produce a baby, but you waited until the final day to deliver it? What a terribly mismanaged project.
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A different spin:
Even after losing an election, the Biden admin worked until the last minute instead of inciting a riot and rage-quitting a war (https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2022/10...).
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Biden utterly failed at getting a ceasefire. Bibi waited for the election hoping that trump would give him free rein. Instead Trump said end the war(and probably also said you can go ahead and annex the West Bank is exchange).
> Biden utterly failed at getting a ceasefire.
Just to add more context to this:
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/11/biden-israel-pa...
There is no way for someone to pay attention to the Biden administration over the last year and come away with the impression that they were actually trying. Every single (rare) time they pretended to draw a line Israel violated it blatantly and Biden just ignored it. They weren't even credibly pretending to try.
Yo like- I know Trump is going to be worse here: he supports West Bank settlers illegally taking land and gave away Jerusalem.
But Biden did not get that ceasefire. He's been a disaster
Historical revisionism is supposed to happen when enough time has passed.
This ceasefire is directly due to Trump's pressure on Netanyahu. Trump's envoy went to Doha and made this happen: https://www.axios.com/2025/01/11/trumps-israel-gaza-deal-jan...
This is the actual reality
> This is the actual reality
No. That is your opinion.
Biden and Middle East administrations had similar meetings for over a year now.
Unless we have a quote directly from the Netanyahu administration it's all just conjecture.
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Trump's envoy (Steve Witkoff) himself stated that "[Brett H. McGurk] is in the lead". McGurk is Biden's longtime negotiator
The US has only one president at a time. Until Jan 20 Trump is a citzen and subject to the Logan act.
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> Meanwhile Biden's actions has resulted in a ceasefire.
This war happened under Biden with the first ceasefire deal being rejected which that prolonged the war until the Democrats lost the election to Trump.
Under his presidency, he failed to prevent this war and failed to stop the Russia-Ukraine war from happening only which is why he lost a second term.
Had he or Harris won the election, this war would be still going on today.
>Meanwhile Biden's actions has resulted in a ceasefire.
please stop being a rage baiting troll. the war lasted for 15 months, but ended when there is 5 days left for Trump's inauguration.
This is what happens when there is an unchecked Affirmative Action program for zionists in many industries like tech and Media.
Microsoft employees get fired for calling for a ceasefire meanwhile their Israeli counterparts get to gloat about continued slaughter of children with a mere investigation, in Apple, they provide extra support for employees doing time for the IDF while Palestinian employees get fired and Muslim support slack channels get shut down.
Unfortunately, the Contrarian Club in the tech industry is yet to reckon with the pernicious AA program for zionists meanwhile bleating about the joke of meritocracy and crying about H1Bs.
Folks who haven't heard yet should Google what Tal Broda was allowed to tweet while keeping his job as head of research at OpenAI.
It's the zionist affirmative action that gives unlimited second chances for clearly fireable offenses (if it were anyone else) in a cancel-culture prone ecosystem like tech and media. In contrast, people on HN get their comments cancelled just for calling them out on it as we can see from the mass-downvoting/flagging/deading in this thread. Interesting behaviour from the Chatham House rules/anti-snowflake/AI Killer drone funding/free speech+tiktok ban Certified Contrarian™ brigade.
Meanwhile, Cornell still employs the professor who called Oct 7 exhilarating. How would you describe that?
The holocaust justifiers truly are the most gormless people who lack basic comprehension. Where did I say the AA program captured 100% of jobs? And did you read which industries I mentioned? Probably not, I mentioned tech and media. Cornell is a an academic institution, many people know this actually. Academia is not Tech and media industry. The definition of Academia is the environment or community concerned with the pursuit of research, education, and scholarship. It should go without saying but unfortunately implicit things like the definition of Academia and "don't commit or justify a genocide" is too high a bar for some.
Sad.
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Amazing that such overt antisemitism is allowed to remain up. Substituting "Zionist" for "Jew" doesn't make it not antisemitism (yes, 90% of Jews are self-identifying zionists, and these are classic antisemitic tropes).
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Hamas’ main goal is killing every single Israeli. Israel defends themselves. Hamas are the good guys? Honestly this take being seriously considered is a truly horrible sign for dem electability. The vast majority of Americans see right through it.
He got informed by social media, of course he knows what he's talking about...