> reasonable counterarguments to all those accusations. To cover them all would result in a massive wall of text ... intractable security problems ... extremism in the wider region ... justifications for Israel's existence ... 'never again'
Goebbels also laid down "reasonable" arguments in "a wall of text" on intractable security problems, extremism among the diaspora, justifiable 'Reich must not fall again' rhetoric when it came to German Jews. He was indeed "just wrong". If 'never again' is our ethos, we mustn't be like Goebbels.
The [Palestinians] are responsible for the war. The treatment they receive from us is hardly unjust. They have deserved it all.
It is the job of the government to deal with them. No one has the right to act on his own, but each has the duty to support the state's measures against the [Palestinians], to defend them with others, and to avoid being misled by any [Palestinian] tricks.
The security of the state requires that of us.
> contrast Israel's behavior between Gazan vs Israeli arabs
Settler Colonialism 101. Nothing dramatic about it at all, as many have who spilled ink on the topic have taken pains to point out, like here: https://archive.is/UAs9G
Members of the same community were separated by chance into three different groups. All suffered occupation and oppression by Israeli governments. All had lands and property stolen, and all were denied collective national rights. But only those inside the Green Line were given citizenship (without anyone asking their opinion). East Jerusalem residents had permanent residency imposed on them (with a theoretical possibility of becoming citizens). And Palestinians in the territories got Dayan's “different relationship.”
After 56 years, the results of this experiment are clear. It’s the citizenship, stupid! Arabs in Israel, despite the discrimination and for all their reservations, have by and large integrated into Israeli society. Every day, we entrust our lives to Arab doctors, nurses, bus drivers, lawyers and mechanics.
Without any regard for the security issues, the conflict would be simple. That's not very helpful. Deserved or not, suicide bombings and missiles are real security issues.
Re: granting all Palestinians Citizenship
If the argument is that this would be a good idea, of course it would, as long as it were under a reasonably pluralistic system. It would be fantastic to see a single Israeli/Palestinian state with a slight arab majority, but everyone with their voice represented, all living in peace and harmony.
> Without any regard for the security issues, the conflict would be simple. That's not very helpful. Deserved or not, suicide bombings and missiles are real security issues.
Recency bias. Post 67, many a non-violent Palestinian demonstrations were met with Israeli violence [0]. And this has since kept escalating with each round. You'd think a peoples so utterly out-gunned would lay low, but they somehow aren't. There's something else that's fanning the flames, keeping the hatred going. Potentially, by whatever/whoever stands to benefit from the conflict, either financially (hi-tech [1]) or politically (Revisionists/Hamasniks/PA).
> the argument is that this would be a good idea
The argument is that, that ship has sailed, and so other than 2SS (67 borders), any other enclave-like arrangement (ex: Oslo) will not bring peace (instead lead to Goebbels-esque narratives & Fascist-esque behaviour). Though, 67 borders sounds like a recipe for a civil war.
> It would be fantastic to see a single Israeli/Palestinian state with a slight arab majority, but everyone with their voice represented, all living in peace and harmony.
Single state is a construct of few people with far-left views. They already tried something like that in USSR where they put for example Armenians and Azerbaijanians in the same state (and many other smaller examples within USSR). Look what happened.
I don't see even a single chance this will ever work, also it has zero support on the ground by both sides.
> reasonable counterarguments to all those accusations. To cover them all would result in a massive wall of text ... intractable security problems ... extremism in the wider region ... justifications for Israel's existence ... 'never again'
Goebbels also laid down "reasonable" arguments in "a wall of text" on intractable security problems, extremism among the diaspora, justifiable 'Reich must not fall again' rhetoric when it came to German Jews. He was indeed "just wrong". If 'never again' is our ethos, we mustn't be like Goebbels.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/joseph-goebbels-quot-th...
> contrast Israel's behavior between Gazan vs Israeli arabs
Settler Colonialism 101. Nothing dramatic about it at all, as many have who spilled ink on the topic have taken pains to point out, like here: https://archive.is/UAs9G
Re: Nazi propaganda and security
Without any regard for the security issues, the conflict would be simple. That's not very helpful. Deserved or not, suicide bombings and missiles are real security issues.
Re: granting all Palestinians Citizenship
If the argument is that this would be a good idea, of course it would, as long as it were under a reasonably pluralistic system. It would be fantastic to see a single Israeli/Palestinian state with a slight arab majority, but everyone with their voice represented, all living in peace and harmony.
> Without any regard for the security issues, the conflict would be simple. That's not very helpful. Deserved or not, suicide bombings and missiles are real security issues.
Recency bias. Post 67, many a non-violent Palestinian demonstrations were met with Israeli violence [0]. And this has since kept escalating with each round. You'd think a peoples so utterly out-gunned would lay low, but they somehow aren't. There's something else that's fanning the flames, keeping the hatred going. Potentially, by whatever/whoever stands to benefit from the conflict, either financially (hi-tech [1]) or politically (Revisionists/Hamasniks/PA).
> the argument is that this would be a good idea
The argument is that, that ship has sailed, and so other than 2SS (67 borders), any other enclave-like arrangement (ex: Oslo) will not bring peace (instead lead to Goebbels-esque narratives & Fascist-esque behaviour). Though, 67 borders sounds like a recipe for a civil war.
[0] https://x.com/idanlandau/status/1876619129924514076 / https://archive.vn/Akaym
[1] https://www.calcalistech.com/ctechnews/article/581m21wyg / https://archive.vn/GXYG7
2 replies →
> It would be fantastic to see a single Israeli/Palestinian state with a slight arab majority, but everyone with their voice represented, all living in peace and harmony.
Single state is a construct of few people with far-left views. They already tried something like that in USSR where they put for example Armenians and Azerbaijanians in the same state (and many other smaller examples within USSR). Look what happened.
I don't see even a single chance this will ever work, also it has zero support on the ground by both sides.
1 reply →