Comment by dakom
1 day ago
Lol, you're clueless, I served in Nahal Hareidi myself. Directly. And you're going to try and spin me on this? Sickening.
I was directly ordered to NEVER attack civilians. In fact, I was even ordered to NEVER shoot terrorists unless they shoot first. In cases of clear danger but no shots (like someone approaching with a knife), the orders were to shoot in the air with a warning, then if necessary try to shoot in the legs.
As a Nahal Hareidi soldier I went on a patrol in a village, with Druze drivers, and was instructed to only use rubber bullets when we were attacked with rocks.
Speaking of rocks, the quote I am talking about from the Hamas charter is:
"Article 7: "The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: "The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him."" [Page 4]
So.. either you're deliberately twisting the narrative to suit your agenda, or you're ignorant.
I want to believe the latter based on your handle, but you misquoted too many sources for me to believe that's the case.
Just another antisemite looking for evidence to support a blood libel when there is no evidence at all.
But, hey, let's go further. Even if you go to the absolute extreme right, what Rabbi Meir Kahane actually said was that Israel can't simultaneously exist as a Jewish state and a Western democracy because Arab population will gain too much voting power and abolish the Rabbanut's jurisdiction over things like shemittah, marriage, etc.
It's a rational point, and he didn't have good solutions, he merely pointed out that the most peaceful logical solution was cooperative resettlement of Arabs outside of Israel. Not forced. I am not saying I agree with his policy, I am saying it was not one of genocide.
Some of his followers took to violence, but even that was typically based on the reality of ongoing skirmishes, and we're talking extremely small numbers. You probably have more representation per capita of violent gangs in America. Doesn't reflect the norm by any means, not even of Kahane supporters, nevermind normative Israeli government.
Genocide was never the policy of Israel, comparing it to Hamas is disgusting.
Yes- it actually matters that I can "chill" with Arab Muslims in Israel but I would get murdered in Gaza based on my nationality and/or religion alone. It really makes a difference.
> Lol, you're clueless, I served in Nahal Hareidi myself.
That's not me sanctioning the Nahal Haredi citing activity akin to torturing civilians, but the US Government. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/what-is-israeli-ne...
> was directly ordered to NEVER attack civilians
You should know that "direct orders" are rarely given?
> even if you go to the absolute extreme right
I mean, haven't they long proclaimed, "better a living Judeo-Nazi than a dead saint"? https://www.jstor.org/stable/2536162 I'd not go bat for them, if I were you.
> It's a rational point, and he didn't have good solutions, he merely pointed out that the most peaceful logical solution was cooperative resettlement of Arabs outside of Israel. Not forced. I am not saying I agree with his policy, I am saying it was not one of genocide.
Btw, the leader of the Third Reich started with the intention to ethnically cleanse before Himmler lodged a different plan. Besides:
https://www.genocidewatch.com/tenstages
> Just another antisemite...
?
> That's not me sanctioning the Nahal Haredi citing activity akin to torturing civilians
What are you talking about? Read the article you linked to. A single detainee had a heart attack and the accusation is about using zip ties and a gag. Zip ties are absolutely normal. A gag is a bit much but there are situations in the field where it's reasonable. On top of that there were internal investigations done by the IDF because no unit is above the law or policy of the army which is absolutely NOT about genocide or anything near it. It is shameful that you try and cite this as though it were something more damning than it is.
> You should know that "direct orders" are rarely given
I am telling you what my direct orders were throughout training and in the field. I had very clear instructions of protocol about minimizing violence, frankly at the risk of our own lives even under threat from an armed enemy.
> Btw, the leader of the Third Reich started with the intention to ethnically cleanse...
What a ridiculous jump! Rabbi Kahane had a legitimate point about the incompatibility of Western democracy and a thoroughly Jewish state of Israel. He advocated for peaceful resettlement and very much wanted good relationships between a Jewish State of Israel and the neighboring Arab/Muslim countries. Again, I am not saying I agree with his solutions, but objectively he was pointing out a logical dilemma that can't be solved by wishful thinking.
Likening him to a Nazi is horribly off and a terrible insult to a man who lost family members to the holocaust (one of his family, Alice iirc, is a well known artist who I once saw speak at Yad Vashem, as it happens).
> Just another antisemite...
>> ?
It's pretty clear to me when you misquote and twist all kinds of sources to suit false narratives. That takes a certain level of commitment.
But lets keep it simple
I have two questions:
1) How would you propose to maintain a Jewish State of Israel in light of a growing Arab/Muslim population in her borders?
2) Is there any legitimacy at all to the borders outlined in the Torah (i.e. are Jews allowed to practice their religion, which dictates hundreds of laws specific to the land of Israel)?