Comment by pjc50

I mean, I really don't know how to react to this type of situation, personally. I do think that the CEO of a firm doing a fascist salute, multiple times, on live television is actually relevant to the business interests of the company, and the political interest of the nations in which it operates.

Do I think it's worth talking about in this context? I honestly don't know. I get your point. I also understand that it was the type of "Lol, nothing matters" flamebait, meant to ruffle feathers intentionally, but it's relevant that this is exactly that ethos pointed to in Sartre's Anti-Semite and Jew about the actual brownshirts and blackshirts this salute is meant to directly reference:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Semite_and_Jew

No, I would agree with you that the salute isn't directly relevant to the pledge in the article, but it's certainly directly relevant to whether or not the pledge is being made in good-faith. This is why I think it's relevant, even if it's exhausting. We just live in exhausting times.

Contrary to what seems to often be believed, the EU way of doing things is to try to make companies do their own agreement and policing, as to avoid the rigidity of regulation unless we absolutely have to.

Another example is how the EU asked the phone manufacturers to agree on a common charger for years on a good will basis, and only had to regulate when samsung said they were going to back out if no regulation was made because apple was not playing ball.

So the idea here is "guys, we really don't want to come here and make a law about what is or isn't allowed to be said or what has to be fact checked and everything, we want you to behave like adults and agree together about said rules".

I believe in this case, the fact that every company is part of the same country and same bunch of absurdly rich tech companies means it's never going to work at all.

Often here in the UK if there's a problem with a particular, the first step in regulation is for the government to talk to the trade body representing the industry and basically say "Regulate yourselves, or be regulated"

Then, if they're sensible, the industry creates a code of conduct that addresses the problems that drew the attention of legislators, without being too onerous; all the main players in the industry sign up and follow it; and the government doesn't have to pass legislation.

Politicians are happy because the problem goes away, and regulatory burdens on industry don't increase. Industry is happy because they get soft-touch regulation that's under their control.

It doesn't always work, of course.

I noted in a comment above that this type of behavior, "Lol, nothing matters" is exactly the kind of behavior described by Sartre in Anti-Semite and Jew about the behavior of actual brownshirts and blackshirts that this salute is meant to directly reference:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Semite_and_Jew

It isn't that this type of behavior is designed to get something, it's that the type of mindset, one that has decided not to care anymore, to reject nuance and embrace a kind of good-guy/bad-guy explanation of complex problem in the world, ultimately leading to bad faith engagement... well all that leads to this type of behavior.

The idea is that this type of action isn't trying to achieve anything, it's the result of a worldview.

It was a naz! salut. Dont belittle his actions, he is a grown man and should be held accountable for the way he presents himself.

One could argue anything, but one risks being called a fool by everyone.

Prisoner's dilemma: if you steelman people who won't do the same for you, you're going to get ripped off.

> when we try to fight each other in every single regard

Bit hard to be civil when Musk has replicated arguably the most offensive action in human history.

could you explain what you mean - are you saying that the sign that Elon made, twice, was not a Nazi salute?

not sure what is wrong about OPs comment. is there anything false in what he said?

That's literally unambiguously a nazi salute. I've seen them before, from actual nazis. Because I am descended from one unfortunately.

It's shameful and at no point does any word play and excuse making around it make it ok. This needs to stop now. Right now.

Add to that the literal support for the far right parties definitely and conclusively aligned with nazi ideology, such as the AfD, it's terrible for everyone.

It's going to be really interesting to see how organizations, relying on funding and/or support from the government, will twist themselves to deny what is fairly evident in plain sight hoping to avoid retaliation in general. I'm not sure what Elon was doing/intending to do but the resemblance is uncanny. And he did it twice, just to make sure. The first time, I was like eh, could go either way, he's made unique and enthusiastic gestures in public before before. The second one was more troubling. Certainly the kind of thing that would get you tackled to the floor by German police officers. Even if unintentional, you'd have some time to think about it and some 'splaining to do.

okay lets see

hand placement is that of the Hitler salute

arm placement is that of the Hitler salute

high of the hand is that of the Hitler salute

placement of hand before doing the salute is that of the Hitler salute

even his speech before indicates it's a Hitler salute:

"This is a new beginning. Let’s hope for healing and work toward unity in the months and years ahead"

Now this part needs a bit more explanation: The Hitler salute proper name is "Sieg Heil" which yes meas to "Hail!" someone. But it also literally translated means "victory heal".

The meaning here was to "heal" Germany (which include taking over territories in the twisted interpretation of Nazis) but also to "heal" Germany (from Jews, queer people, disabled people etc. by killing them. It also was all about creating a unified fascist Germany under Hitler. It was also about projecting power and that it's a new Germany.

I.e. "new beginning/new Germany", "heal", "unify", "let's make it grate again" (to use modern lingo) where the core aspects of "Sieg Heil" just with very perfidy interpretations of heal and unify. But then taking otherwise well meaning symbolism (e.g. the swastika) and then appropriating it and turning it into something evil was the standard mode of operation of Nazis.

So he makes a Hitler salute after saying things which Hitler (in slightly different words due to language changing over time) would have said (before going full maks off let's kill all yews).

I rally don't know how anyone could interpret it as not being a nazi salute, that would be supper naive/self blinding/foolish.

Now the more interesting interpretation is does it mean he is a Nazi?

Well probably no.

Nazi is a very specific term, and there are many other kinds of fascism which aren't Nazis (which to be clear "different" doesn't contain a judgement. It neither implies "better" nor "worse").

Through what it is is a very clear statement of "I'm a fascist" and/or "I idolizes at least some aspects of Nazi Germany".

Which, let's be honest, shouldn't surprise anyone who followed what he was doing in roughly the last year.

Trump's entire campaign ran on curbing immigration, closing the borders and deportation of illegal immigrants. The one exception to that (the H-1B story) caused a lot of upheaval in his base. Among the many crazy things he said were things like people having to go out and vote for the last time, that he will be a dictator for a day, and calling his political opponents vermin. I'll just mention Project 2025 and his former wife mentioning that he's had a book of Hitler speeches by his bedside in passing.

Among the first acts on his first day as president he shuts down an app that helped people immigrate legally.

The first swath of Biden era executive orders rescinded[1] includes migration related ones to now loosen and reduce oversight and enable more heavy handed treatment of the matter, creating the foundation to conduct the type of raids that started happening the second he was certified[2].

Then at his inauguration this unfortunate little mishap occurs. Twice, mind you. By a man who continually promotes and enables alt-right ideology.

If you squint really, really hard, it's a dog whistle. That's the best case scenario. For everyone else, Elon Musk unambiguously performed a Nazi salute.

The absence of this moment from alt-right safe spaces like r/conservative and the X/Twitter feeds of prominent influencers despite the fact that their user base seems to have loved it is, in itself, a story worth telling.

[1] https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/init...

[2] https://calmatters.org/economy/2025/01/kern-county-immigrati...