Comment by steveklabnik
10 months ago
> no one is really against some Rust in some parts of the kernel
This drama included the dma maintainer saying he is categorically opposed to any Rust in any part of the kernel.
10 months ago
> no one is really against some Rust in some parts of the kernel
This drama included the dma maintainer saying he is categorically opposed to any Rust in any part of the kernel.
Where? Because "keep the wrappers in your code" and "do that in your driver so that you have to do it instead of spreading this" doesn't sound like that.
He said explicitely:
>Every additional bit that another language creeps in drastically reduces the maintainability of the kernel as an integrated project. The only reason Linux managed to survive so long is by not having internal boundaries, and adding another language completely breaks this. You might not like my answer, but I will do everything I can do to stop this.
I think that clearly means he is out to sabotage any other language than C making it into Linux.
The end of the paragraph also emphasized the point
> I do not want it anywhere near a huge C code base that I need to maintain.
Link to mailing list: https://lwn.net/ml/all/20250131075751.GA16720@lst.de/
This was also on a patch that did "keep the wrappers in [rust-folder, not DMA] code". Arp242's interpretation isn't just belied by the direct words of the maintainer, it's belied by the fact that the code the maintainer rejected was exactly what Arp242 is suggesting the maintainer was asking for.
I wouldn't call being vocally against something "sabotage". Would it be reasonable if that person said anyone trying to get rust integrated is sabotaging the Linux kernel?
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So there's actually a reasoning behind this and not just personal preference or someone being stubborn. And as someone who has maintained large old code bases I must say the reasoning sounds pretty convincing.
If any of
> Every additional bit that another language creeps in drastically reduces the maintainability of the kernel as an integrated project. The only reason Linux managed to survive so long is by not having internal boundaries, and adding another language completely breaks this.
is correct, he is actually fighting against sabotage.
edit for readability
This [0] seems to be the closest to your parent's statement:
> The common ground is that I have absolutely no interest in helping to spread a multi-language code base. I absolutely support using Rust in new codebase, but I do not at all in Linux.
[0] https://lwn.net/ml/all/20250204052916.GA28741@lst.de/
He needs really to be removed from the process. He may be useful for now but for long term he is an impediment. C is the 1970’s. Sure it’s proven itself… but so had Assembly when Unix was invented.
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Are you referring to Hellwig saying, "No rust code in kernel/dma, please."? I took that to mean just dma.
The objection was to a separate file entirely outside of his subtree, describing its interface, which is apparently supposed to be duplicated instead in each rust driver that references it, for no clear reason -- other than his stated reason of not wanting to see languages other than C in the kernel at all.
I was referring to the statements provided by the children of this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42978746 (they were made at roughly the same time you posted this, so you wouldn't have seen them then)
Ah, sorry. I see it now.
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