Comment by try_the_bass
5 months ago
Cool, you cherry-picked some radical and terrible things. I can find some examples of progressives doing radical and terrible things, too.
This whataboutism is unrelated to the point I was making, and entirely representative of the kind of thinking that is facilitating and encouraging the dissolution of political discourse in this country.
When your first response to someone suggesting that you might be part of the problem is to excuse every bad action from your side by pointing to the egregious actions of the other, you tell me that you have no interest in having a good-faith discussion with anyone who disagrees with you, even slightly. We may agree on most topics, even, and yet you come out of the gate swinging because I suggested your side (which is also my own side!) might be part of the problem.
How then can you expect someone like me to believe you actually have my best interests in mind? Responses like this are not convincing that we even are on the same side, even if we agree on most things!
P.S. The problem with whataboutism is that it undermines your point. If you're offended when "the other side" does a thing, you should be even more offended when your own side does it, because it represents a betrayal of your values. The fact that you're using the other side's bad behavior to entirely discount criticisms about your side's behavior just tells me you don't actually think it's bad behavior when your side does it. At the end of the day, the message I get from that is "rules for thee, but not for me".
Trust me, "they go low, we go high" never worked and never will. Anything the right can criticize an opponent on, they will blast on Fox news and X 24/7, with nonstop propaganda and added lies, but Elon does a nazi salute on live TV twice and it's barely acknowledged.
I'll be succinct: no amount of courtesy and patience will deradicalize a fascist. The only thing that can get us out of this mess is a constant reminder to the people that aren't radicalized yet, that what Musk and his goons are doing is not OK and actually very dangerous to everything and everyone they hold dear. Use your voice while you still can.
(Also, I doubt you could find anything the left ever did to this country that would remotely compare in severity to what republicans are currently doing. And even if you could, they are not the source of the current threats our democracy, rights and freedom faces.)
Ah, so "hate has no place here" never was a serious statement?
Amazing how much the progressive movement has changed over the past few years, and in no way for the better.
Please understand: people very rarely change their beliefs without both push and pull mechanisms being in effect. The Democratic party lost this election soundly, which is strong evidence that a) they lack a meaningful message to attract people not yet on their side, or b) they are projecting a powerful message that's pushing existing allies out; or some combination of the two where the "push" outweighs the "pull". Doubling down on the "push" when it's being called out as such hardly seems like a recipe for success?
One place where I've experienced this personally is the increasingly extreme rhetoric coming from self-professed progressives; to the point where they are now blatantly contradicting the words of yesterday with the actions of today.
While I agree that what's happening with DOGE has the potential to be dangerous, it's also 100% in line with the professed goals of the effort: a full audit of government spending, efficiency, and waste.
So while the rhetoric you're peddling is indeed worrisome and plausible, it's also the same overblown conspiracy-minded rhetoric that has been evolving over the same time period I mentioned. Most of that rhetoric has turned out to be entirely unfounded, so I have trouble believing that this time will be different.
This is an entirely self-inflicted wound on the part of people who share your opinions and methods. You keep making wild predictions, and they keep not coming true. I would believe that some of them have "come true" for some definition of "true", and probably enough for you to maintain your belief in the righteousness of your cause; but as an apparent "outsider", I'm less convinced.
[E] I do have to point this out, though:
> Anything the right can criticize an opponent on, they will blast on Fox news and X 24/7, with nonstop propaganda and added lies, but Elon does a nazi salute on live TV twice and it's barely acknowledged.
The irony of making this statement given the amount of ink spilled over the last couple weeks (more like years!) criticizing anything remotely related to "Elon Musk". The lack of self-awareness is saddening.
I do not hate anyone, besides the fascists currently running the show.
I know you couldn't convince a red cap wearing MAGA fanatic to vote blue, just like you couldn't convince me to vote red. But most people aren't politicized, and those are the ones that need reminders of what is going on up there.
We do agree on the fact the democrats lost soundly, after leading a pathetic campaign against a lunatic who by any metric should have been defeated without a sweat. But I think that's where we disagree most: Trump won through populism, and wether you like it or not (I don't), we now live in populist times.
The democrats were playing as if Project 2025 didn't exist, as if the republicans were still playing by the rules. If Biden said one tenth of the sh*t Trump said during his campaign, it'd have become a central talking point of Trump's.
And now millions will get deported, all US aid in the world suddenly ended, causing millions more to suffer. Minorities are losing rights by the day, etc.
Also, why are you labelling me as a conspiracist? Did I ever lie? What DOGE is doing is illegal. They are employing neonazis. They are going after judges and journalists. Congress is doing nothing to oppose this. Notice how I didn't make a single prediction. Shouldn't this alone be enough to be concerned?
You put too much faith in the strength of our democracy and institutions.
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