Comment by tholdem
1 day ago
> What concerns me more is that Apple is the only company audibly making a stand.
But still Apple operates in China and Google does not. This is weird to me. Google left China when the government wanted all keys to the citizens data. Apple is making a stand when it's visible and does not threaten their business too much.
Apple is not really in the business of protecting your data, they are just good at marketing and keeping their image.
> Google left China when the government wanted all keys to the citizens data.
Google left China after China started hacking into Google's servers.
> In January, Google said it would no longer cooperate with government censors after hackers based in China stole some of the company’s source code and even broke into the Gmail accounts of Chinese human rights advocates.
https://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/23/technology/23google.html
They were working to reenter the China market on China's terms many years later, when Google employees leaked the effort to the press. Google eventually backed down.
I'd imagine there were multiple factors that went into that business decision. Even if this was portrayed as the final straw.
China feels like an important difference here though. Google leaving China doesn't protect Chinese citizen's data any more than Apple turning off ADP in the UK does. As far as I know, Apple isn't pretending that the data of Chinese users is encrypted from their government, and the way they're complying with the Chinese laws shouldn't impact the security of users outside of China.
Apple pulling ADP from UK users is similar - the UK has passed an ill-considered law that Apple doesn't think it can win a court case over, so they're complying in a way that minimally effects the security of people outside the UK. If, as someone outside the UK, I travel to the UK with ADP turned on, my understanding is it won't disable itself.
Would you have been more satisfied if Apple just pulled out of the UK entirely? Bricked every iPhone ever purchased there? Google doesn't seem to have made any stand for security ever - them pulling out of China feels more to do with it meaning they wouldn't have had access to Chinese users' data, which is what they really want.
> Would you have been more satisfied if Apple just pulled out of the UK entirely? Bricked every iPhone ever purchased there?
The request/law would be rolled back in minutes in that case. They wouldn't dare though. (wouldn't even have to be bricking - just disable services like icloud)
Apple has 40 retail stores in the UK with thousands of employees. They have a big new HQ in London where they have engineering, etc there.
I cannot see Apple completely shutting down in the UK, firing thousands of staff, selling off any property, and cancelling leases, just for a week long bargaining chip.
iCloud in China is operated by a local subsidiary. There is a dedicated screen explaining this when you set up an iCloud account in this region.
They adapt to the local rules of each region, much like they’re doing here in the UK.
It’s different. Apple follows Chinese law to operate their services in China, just like Microsoft.
With Google, their services are way broader. Operating a hunk of their search business with a third party Chinese firm just isn’t viable for their services, which are way more complex.
I want to buy my phone from a phone manufacturer.
I want to backup my data with a managed service.
I do NOT want these to be the same company.
The government, with anti trust laws, could easily force this issue. On the other hand, they really love how few places they have to go with FISA warrants to just take anyones data. This is the long tail of the American security state. So it's really ironic that China takes most of the blame.
Perhaps Apple has a greater leverage in China due to its outsized manufacturing presence. And it's likely they already dont offer ADP to Chinese citizens.
> Perhaps Apple has a greater leverage in China due to its outsized manufacturing presence.
Perhaps china has greater leverage over apple in this case...
China had been an important area of growth for many companies during the 2010s. Apple bent over backwards to cater to that market. It was discussed in every financial release, and they obviously made tons of concessions for iCloud.
The UK just comparatively isn't that much revenue, and not worth the fallout.
> China had been an important area of growth for many companies during the 2010s. Apple bent over backwards to cater to that market
and it is the same with european car companies (like volkswagon). Look at where they are now.
I don't believe for a second, that china will not oust apple the moment there's a good reason to.
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> And it's likely they already dont offer ADP to Chinese citizens.
AFAIK before UK only region with ADP was China.
lol you think Apple has more leverage than China? What world are you living in?
A world where HN commentators can read English.
Eh Google had pretty good reasons to not operate in China (not seeing them in this thread, don't recall the details precisely enough to relate here)
Apple is deeply embedded in China (manufacturing) and benefits from a decent (but shrinking) userbase in the country. China isn't asking for the keys to all iphone user data, just data stored in China.