Comment by apitman
4 months ago
> If the Internet’s down, Briar can sync via Bluetooth, Wi-Fi or memory cards
I'd like to see more "peer to peer" projects take things this seriously.
4 months ago
> If the Internet’s down, Briar can sync via Bluetooth, Wi-Fi or memory cards
I'd like to see more "peer to peer" projects take things this seriously.
I've really been trying to get Signal to get some decentralization[0] but unfortunately I pissed off some mods. I do understand their reasoning for staying away from full decentralization, both Moxie and Meredith have made good arguments. But I think this is something where there's a really good middle ground. Where both parties highly benefit.
Users get a lot of added utility, "fun", and not to mention a huge upgrade in privacy and security (under local settings), while Signal gets to reduce a lot of data transfer over the network. There's a lot of use cases for local message and file sharing (see thread) and if the goal is to capture as little data as possible about the users, well let's not capture any network traffic when users are in close proximity, right? It's got to be a lot harder to pick up signals that only are available within a local proximity than signals traveling across the internet. The option of expanding to a mesh network can be implemented later[1] but I don't understand how an idea like this doesn't further the stated goals.
The big problem with things like Briar is that you can't install it after the internet has been turned off AND it is already unpopular. But if an existing app with an existing userbase implements even some meshing then this benefits all those users when an event like that happens. Not to mention there's clear utility in day-to-day life.
[0] https://community.signalusers.org/t/signal-airdrop/37402
[1] I think a mesh network maintains the constraints both Moxie and Meredith have discussed, concerns about ensuring servers are up to data. But then again I'm not sure why that can't be resolved in the same way it is already done where if you let Signal fall too far behind in updates then it will no longer communicate with the servers.
> The big problem with things like Briar is that you can't install it after the internet has been turned off AND it is already unpopular
Sideloading an .apk is supported in all Android versions, right? Even without internet access? Is something more needed to install Briar?
Sure, but this doesn't really scale very well. Distributing those APKs without internet access is pretty hard.
3 replies →
Firechat did meshed WiFi during 2014 Hong Kong protests
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/29/firechat-messa...
China went to hard mode to kill the app.
Secure Scuttlebutt can do similarly. A wandering node can ferry messages to another cluster of nodes; it's used by sailboats where someone visits shore to run errands and exchanges messages as they go.
Do you know of any documentation to get SSB bootstrapped? I tried several times, but I hit a wall of not being able to find any active communities, plus there were old-style, technically obsolete communities and new-style communities, and half the available documentation referred to each, so it was impossible to figure out what to do.
Nope, same issue myself.
I find it fascinating to read about, but it seems to have a steep and very slippery social hill to climb before the technical parts of the network do anything.
1 reply →
What's the use case? I'm assuming one is trying to send a message to someone far away so it seems like the alternatives wouldn't necessarily help.
Other phones with Briar installed can carry your (encrypted) messages, as in a game of whisper. This works best if enough people between you and the recipient had Briar installed ... but most people don't.
But I see how this feature could be very helpful if a state shuts down internet connectivity or during war or a natural catastrophe. The nifty thing is that the app can be shared from one device to another, so you are not dependent on having the app in advance of an emergency.
Ideally, everyone should have this installed as an insurance :)
> This works best if enough people between you and the recipient had [...] installed ... but most people don't.
Which is why it would be nice if operating systems already included such functionality
This is not true, unless you are all in one big fourm or you have a chain of shared blogs. I think they are woried about metadata privacy or people using this to do a DoS.
> Other phones with Briar installed can carry your (encrypted) messages
Sounds like an excellent target for DoS
3 replies →
A bunch of countries turn off the internet at the first sign of protests, hell sometimes they just turn it off to stop "a bunch of college kids from cheating during test week"
Coming to a country near you soon
Right but Bluetooth and local Wi-Fi are very short range so it doesn't actually solve that problem
8 replies →
It is very much in the bingo cards that internet gets shut off in America as an extension of strong-arm policies.
You mean the substrate of our entire economic engine? I think that's a bit dramatic.
Parent didn't say all the internet at once, it could just be a matter of telling telecoms to block connections within certain geofences when protests start to flare up, Egypt 2011 style.
Could even bring down 4G services while whitelisting POS terminals, keep the Starbuckses up and running.
What, like free trade?
I dunno why you're getting downvoted so much.
This sort of thing seemed unthinkable a decade ago, or even in the first Trump admin, but definitely doesn't now.
Other similarly-inclined regimes like Modi in India have proven the effectiveness of targeted Internet shutdowns.