Comment by brazzy
8 months ago
It's not an insult any more than "rapist" or "fraudster" is. These have all factual definitions, and Trump meets all of them.
8 months ago
It's not an insult any more than "rapist" or "fraudster" is. These have all factual definitions, and Trump meets all of them.
Please elaborate. From what I know fascism has components like having the collective prime over the individual, and cult of personality, that Trump's administration does not have. (Before you think I'm a Trump supporter/fascist, I'm not even American, and my great-grandparents fought Nazis)
You don't think Trump commands a cult of personality? I don't know where to begin with that.
HN is simply deranged about Trump and now Elon, and want to slap Fascism on everything.
Unfortunately the kind of people who support Trump aren't smart and only see adjectives as either complementary or as a pejorative. They don't care about what the words actually mean. See: "woke".
[flagged]
Centralized power, promises of historical greatness (literally in the campaign slogan), ostracization of the other. He speaks like a dictator, makes extra-legal threats to his domestic enemies and has surrounded himself with people who have repeatedly made strong endorsements for white nationalism.
I think you know this, it's just that you probably want all those things because, ding ding, you're a fascist.
I’ll take the dictionary definition:
Fascism : a populist political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual, that is associated with a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, and that is characterized by severe economic and social regimentation and by forcible suppression of opposition
I genuinely and in good faith do not believe Trump fits this definition. You can’t just call all your political opponents fascists. We’re kinda over that by now.
15 replies →
Concentration camps in El Salvador, with extrajudicial extradition and no due process?
Or, less dramatic, a drive for national autarky. A very much dirigiste economy. (Cf. massive tariffs). A drive towards a one-party state without a rule of law - explicitly punishing people with dissenting viewpoints to the point of economic exclusion. (Columbia. Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Garrison & Wharton. Jenner & Block).
Let's call a spade a spade, shall we?
[flagged]
2 replies →
Let's use Wikipedia's definition, sure? "far-right, authoritarian, and ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy."
>>forcible suppression of opposition
There's the revocation of citizenship, the deporting people to foreign jails without full due process, crackdowns on protestors generally, opposition to trans existence. Do you want links to where this has happened or can we agree these are actions and policy the state has taken recently?
>>subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation
"We need an economic reset, so don't worry about the inflation", DOGE cutting services, tariffs as a means to...whatever the fuck the tariffs are supposed to fix?
A fascist is not “far right”. I think the dictionary definition is more accepted.
So far the people in power have not used violence to suppress opposition. They have not promoted one ethnicity or race above others. They have not made trump a dictator. Trumps authority has remained scoped to the executive office of the government…
I mean come on. Just because the party in power across the board is effective at pushing policies you don’t fully agree with does not a fascist regime make.
Every single president back to Clinton and probably beyond, including Obama, has spoken out against government waste and spending abuse. These aren’t new soundbytes. Everyone is just up in arms when it’s not their party getting shit done.
5 replies →
Start here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_and_fascism
People need to look at the totality of his actions and policy. It is about character rather than litigating a particular argument.
I think Trump and his administration are patriots. Clearly to a fault at times, but everyone has faults. I do not step back and see America on a course to fascism with Trump at the helm. If we drown in debt we don’t have a nation. Full stop. Someone has to look at how we spend our money, ask fundamentally whether it serves the taxpayer’s interest, and make calls. Illegal aliens are expensive. Corruption is expensive. Unfair trade is expensive. Dependence on other nations for strategic manufacturing is expensive. Exporting labor is expensive.
I mean what actually is the outrage here? I do not see it. I see patriots trying to defend taxpayer interests. Taxpayers are the in group. That’s not racist or ethnic. It’s nationalist. Defending its citizens is what nations do. Since when is that equal to fascism?
5 replies →
Just go down this list:
https://www.keene.edu/academics/cchgs/resources/presentation...
I think it is pretty obvious that trump doesn't have any real political ambitions besides being popular and powerful, and seeking personal retribution against those who tarnish his reputation. In fact, he increasingly just seems like a tired old man fulfilling his political obligations he made in his last campaign. Even when he was running, he would pretty much cosy up to any political group that held him in high regard. He has always been a sleazy businessman who takes advantage of his brand name — not much has changed.
The idea that trump cares about "fascism", or is even capable of holding such high-minded political beliefs is some hysterical leftist nonsense. Trump is the type of politician that would support any topic "X" as long as you campaigned on the basis of "X is cool and trump is also cool". In our timeline X was cryptocurrency, antivax, Qanon, charlottesville protesters, etc. but it could have just as easily been environmentalists, gay rights activists, BLM, etc.
When most people talk about facism, they are referring to a regime like those under hitler or mussolini. I am pretty sure hitler and mussolini had actual political goals they cared about. There will never be a "night of the long knives" because there is nothing that trump even wants that's worth backstabbing his allies over. To use the word fascist is ridiculous, because he is just acting as a ouija board for his dopey supporters.
I hope you're right, because his dopey supporters have destroyed any balances or opposition to him other than the courts (which he is also busy attacking and undermining).
Non-hysterical people aren't concerned that there's a night of the long knives imminent, but are concerned that there now could be. It's the breakdown of the rule of law - if he won't punish legitimate law breaking, provides pardons to people that support him, uses the government and justice department to go after people who don't agree with him...what will stop him if he decides to, short of popular uprising? And let's be clear, that's civil war/domestic terrorism territory.
The word "fascist" still applies as a descriptive term, even if Trump doesn't identify with or intentionally pursue it.
I mostly agree with your characterization of him, but those tendencies of sleazy egoism naturally lead to authoritarian policies. When your ego must be stroked and your word must be last, you naturally fight against important democratic safeguards that would restrain you, like apolotical bureaucracies and separation of powers, both of which we're seeing play out literally right now. Trump is defying Congress's sole authority of appropriating government funds, and has strongly signaled intent to defy court orders (and only hasn't technically defied them yet because decisions are still pending). DOGE is a thin excuse to purge federal agencies and fill them with partisan yes-men (or simply destroy them altogether and give Trump full control).
Despite Trump's personal politics, it's obvious that those in his orbit (including several cabinet appointees and his VP) do have intentionally fascist ideals and goals. Whether Trump personally cares or not is a distinction without a difference. He may not care about pursuing a "night of long knives", but many who have influence in his administration do, and Trump probably won't care to stop them, especially if it makes him seem like a strong, no-nonsense leader.
Fascism is coming to America and Donald Trump is the one commanding the cult of personality that is making it happen. That alone is worthy of criticism. It should be concerning to anyone who opposes fascism, regardless of who exactly is to blame or how exactly it is being done. Arguments like yours are mostly a distraction.
It's like a Chinese Room of fascism: Trump has the cult of personality and the power, Stephen Miller has the fascist ideals. Neither has to individually implement fascism in order for it to be reality so long as they are working together.