Comment by _aavaa_

21 days ago

> dangerous neurotoxin

I think you can pretty easily infer his opinion about toothpaste containing a "dangerous neurotoxin".

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_aavaa_

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somenameforme  21 days ago

The lethal dose of fluoride is in the 5-10g range for an adult [1] with immediate gastrointestinal effects at 15-20x lower. While those levels are quite obviously far above the recommended level of 0.7mg/l, it's very reasonable to call anything that's lethal at 5g, to a human adult, as dangerous.

The latest report from the National Toxicology Program has found a causal reduction of ~1.63 IQ per additional mg/L concentration of fluoride in their urine [2], which would seem sufficient to also call it a neurotoxin, though the NTP under extensive pressure chose to avoid any particular label after having previously declared it a "presumed neurotoxin."

Notably the study from NTP also mentioned something most people here seem to be missing: "There is a concern, however, that some pregnant women and children may be getting more fluoride than they need because they now get fluoride from many sources including treated public water, water-added foods and beverages, teas, toothpaste, floss, and mouthwash, and the combined total intake of fluoride may exceed safe amounts."

Fluoride being seen as desirable at safe levels, may have drove excessive multi-domain inputs of it, which can combine to drive it to unsafe levels.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoride_toxicity

[2] - https://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/whatwestudy/assessments/noncancer/...

  • _aavaa_  21 days ago

    > it's very reasonable to call anything that's lethal at 5g, to a human adult, as dangerous.

    No it is not. It is sensational and intentionally inflammatory. It is especially damming coming from someone in his position.

    Vitamin A, vitamin D, vitamin B, iron, and caffeine are all deadly at that level. The first 4 are mandatory for life, shall we call them dangerous too? Or perhaps we have some nuance and acknowledge the co spirit oriel background (and other beliefs) of the people pushing the anti-fluoride message.

    • somenameforme  21 days ago

      Obviously. In looking up the LD50/lethal dose for vitamin A, I ended up here. [1] You might notice the big red symbol "Health Hazard" at the top. And the LD50 for vitamin A ranges from 1500-3700mg/kg, contrasted against fluoride's 26-94! But really one of the biggest issues here is that unless you're actively trying to kill yourself with vitamins, an overdose generally has no major effects beyond some gastrointestinal issues. I've experienced it myself by supplementing with vitamins while body building and consuming an already extremely high nutrient diet.

      But with fluoride we're talking about extremely low doses, well below the lethal level, being able to potentially permanently damage the mind's of children. Such an extreme risk justifies an abundance of caution, especially when the reason we're doing it is for some relatively modest dental gains, which are likely increasingly obsolete with fluoride being in tooth paste and many other sources besides water. In fact, as per the study I linked to up above, this is precisely the problem!

      "Since 1945, the use of fluoride has been a successful public health initiative for reducing dental cavities and improving general oral health of adults and children. There is a concern, however, that some pregnant women and children may be getting more fluoride than they need because they now get fluoride from many sources including treated public water, water-added foods and beverages, teas, toothpaste, floss, and mouthwash, and the combined total intake of fluoride may exceed safe amounts."

      [1] - https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Retinol

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