Comment by silcoon
19 days ago
In a European public university ~10 years ago, I did a class in discrete mathematics in my first year as a student and it was hard. The professor was going fast, not following any book or notes but writing everything on the blackboard. During that hour I needed to pay constant attention to the lesson, take notes, going home to find explanations in books or online about what I didn't understand. At the exam, there was a quick pre-test to filter out some of the students. I think there were maybe around 150 students if not more, that tried and only 30 that went to the final exam. I was one of them and passed it with a good mark. It was my first exam in my first year, and I still remember it to be enjoyable because I appreciated the hard work required.
Two years later, I heard that some students didn't pass the exam and wrote a letter to the faculty director, demanding an easy way. The professor was replaced with another one and they passed the class.
Even in reputable public universities, professors have to adjust their teaching to make sure enough students are satisfied with their facutly choice so they can continue receiving government funding.
I dunno, when only 20% of the students are even able to take the test I'm pretty inclined to put that one squarely on the teacher.
It depends on the model, some universities are easy to get in but have weed-out classes, some are hard to get in but comparatively easy to finish, and some are both hard to get in and hard to finish.
Discrete maths back in my days was one of those almost universal weed-out classes which got rid of people with limited abstract thinking ability who weren't willing or able to get over that with hard work. Very heavy correlation between how well you did in that class and core CS subjects.
That the university replaced the teacher suggests that's not how the university viewed things.
In my EU country, lots of first year students are kind of lost and are picking their major more or less at random (or very unprepared). Very low passing rates in first year are very common. It gets better in 3rd year and after.
Or as I've heard - in USA entrance is the hard part; in EU staying afloat during the first year is the hard part.
I certainly remember my first year being the hardest in term of rigour, and the others being more pleasant (still hard, though)
You suffer from survivor bias. There are better ways to make courses harder than not having any notes.
80% of students failing the exam is the fault of the teacher or fault of university for having admitted unprepared students.
Unfortunately, my uni was free admission, so the first year helps filter out unprepared students.
I might suffer from a bias, but what I did was study to pass the test. I don't expect everyone to pass every exam as I don't expect everyone to get a degree. Universities need to be hard if they want to keep their reputation and not be outlived by online courses on YouTube. A degree, more than a certificate that the student attended some classes, should prove that a person is capable of thinking, studying and doing hard work.
What is he goal of teaching?
Is it to filter out ppl that cannot do well with the teaching style of the teacher or is to transfer a skill and knowledge into the student?
> In a European public university ~10 years ago, I did a class in discrete mathematics in my first year as a student and it was hard. The professor was going fast, not following any book or notes but writing everything on the blackboard. During that hour I needed to pay constant attention to the lesson, take notes, going home to find explanations in books or online about what I didn't understand.
This has always been my pet peeve. My classes were mostly like this. I like to think and dig into topics and instead of doing that, there was regurgitation without any pause. Whoever could write fast and have breathing space to think won. I wish they had given out the notes upfront, use a portion of the class to go through the overall thing and then use the rest for getting into the tougher parts/Q&A.