Comment by reverendsteveii

19 days ago

Everyone wants a competitive system where only the best and most qualified advance and everyone imagines themselves among the best and most qualified deserving of advancement. For the majority of us, in an actual competitive system, that belief will run up against the rocks of reality to some extent. You might be great at something but no one is great at everything except that one obnoxious guy you went to high school with. No one likes to find out that they suck, and the way our system is designed right now where students pick their colleges sets up a sort of "fix the grade or we'll take our money elsewhere" leverage students and parents can use against the institution. With the increasing necessity of a college degree in everyone's quest to eat food and sleep indoors, that pressure is only escalating. Junior being not the brightest knife in the crayon box is a tale as old as human society, but until recently Junior used to be able to limp across the finish line in high school and get a job in a factory and have a life. Not the best life, but a life. Nowadays a job where you can comfortably raise a family without a college degree are dwindling. That means that Junior's ability to make a living is gonna depend on getting a degree, and if Junior can't get a degree through competence he will try other ways to get a degree before he'll resign himself to starvation and indigence.

If you're about to type the word "trade school" that's an entirely different debate that I'd love to have with you but trade school, while potentially viable for a single person to fix their own situation, is not the answer to the overall problem at a societal level. We need to either return to a situation where the additional post-secondary training and education aren't required or we need to figure out a way to get people the additional post-secondary training and education.

> trade school, while potentially viable for a single person to fix their own situation, is not the answer to the overall problem at a societal level

Isn't it? Isn't being realistic about your skills in relation to the rest of the world in the current time and place (as opposed to some idealistic past that may or may not have ever existed) a way to "fix this" at a societal level?

Whether or not it's easy or even possible to live a middle-class without starting a business or getting a college degree is irrelevant to whether or not we should be giving college degrees to people who submit this as an answer to a final exam:

> > With the UGM its all about our journey in life, not the destination. He beleives [sic] we need to take time to enjoy the little things becuase [sic] life is short and you never gonna [sic] know what happens. Sometimes he contradicts himself cause [sic] sometimes you say one thing but then you think something else later. It’s all relative.

  • I'm pretty confident I didn't say any of the things you're rebutting.

    >Isn't being realistic about your skills in relation to the rest of the world in the current time and place (as opposed to some idealistic past that may or may not have ever existed) a way to "fix this" at a societal level?

    "Being realistic about your skills in relation to the rest of the world" is very different from and much broader than "take up a trade". The fact is if everyone who isn't being served by the current higher education system today became a plumber or a carpenter tomorrow the increased supply without a concomitant increase in demand would force the pay for those jobs into the shitter as well and we'd still have an army of the underemployed.

    >Whether or not[sic] it's easy or even possible to live a middle-class without starting a business or getting a college degree is irrelevant to whether or not[sic] we should be giving college degrees to people who submit this as an answer to a final exam:

    I didn't say we should give degrees to people who can't demonstrate the skills or knowledge either, only that if we make survival contingent on getting degrees people who can't get them legitimately will try to get them illegitimately. People have a distressing tendency to try to continue to live even when the rules tell them that they shouldn't.