Comment by keyle
15 days ago
It's an interesting read. I'm in the complete opposite camp. I can't pick up a game controller for more than 5 minutes without feeling like I'm wasting time.
This has lead to many, many side projects throughout the years, which I tend to like a zen garden[1]. Pruning, refining, improving, and sometimes rewriting.
As soon as I work out the game mechanics of any game, I just see it as just content now, and there is nothing holding me back to play any longer. Same with watching TV shows or movies, I lose interest pretty quickly and feel an urge to create something.
I've always been very in tune with time, our lack of it, and felt like consumption is a waste of time.
That said I believe creativity is hormonal (that is only my personal belief, unproven). It comes and goes. Some days I can't stop creating, somedays I want netflix and chill. But that's 10 days cycle of sorts, 10 days on, 10 days off.
Depending on where you live, it's perfectly normal that due to current events, or a personal loss in your life, etc. you might not feel the creative bug tickling you. The creative hormone might be totally wiped by your current environment or predicament; tiredness, anger, stress, all play into it.
After all, since our early days in the caves, drawing on walls, Humans wouldn't do so unless they had safety, a full belly, and a warm fire. A place to call home. Creative time needs conditions to be filled.
I find that due to having a remote job and living alone (albeit with my lovely dog) I'm less inclined to work on a side project where I'm again alone. I tend to gravitate more nowadays to spending time with people and being outdoors.
I used to be really active on side projects when I was a teacher. I'd have my social interaction filled to the brim so side projects were a way to have some alone time and recharge.
Sports is a great way to achieve that
Yeah, I've noticed that when I have lots of stressors, I don't have any creative energy. I have to give myself permission to let go, that it's ok to forget about a side project. It's more important to focus on self-care and tackling irl problems at that point.
But when life is good, it's hard to stop tinkering. Weekend-sized projects are the best. For me, it's an urge to create and see the core 20% come to life, not to maintain the boring parts over time.
Hormonal fluctuations is an interesting theory. I always thought it's just a need for variety -- sometimes consuming (i.e. developing taste, curating, exploring), sometimes creating, sometimes relaxing. For me the cycle is months at a time.
One of the hallmarks of people who get stressed, and especially people with burnout is that they don’t have any creative or any relaxive or active outlet anymore. They get kind of stuck in their stressloop.
Say a people who enjoyed playing an instrument stops playing, etc.
The best companies I worked allowed for a bit of game/social activity between work sessions.
My current problem is that I feel like I’m only barely managing to not completely burn out via relaxation at night. I used to have a ton of excitement over my side project, but for the past several months, I can’t muster the energy. I play a board game on Steam (Wingspan: 10/10 would recommend the physical and digital version) that has a soundtrack I like, and that’s about it. This keeps me sane, but I often find myself wishing I felt confident enough to extend myself further.
Hopefully when my current large work project wraps up I’ll be able to take a breather.
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I’ve noticed this trend in my life where during winter times my consumption goes way up and as soon as spring time is here then my creativity crawls back from hibernation and I quickly regain motivation to continue my side projects. I wish I could be 100% focus year round but for some reason it very hard to keep the inner flame of creativity going during winter times. At least I did noticed this pattern and being aware is the first step to remedy this problem.
In some ways we are just like plants. Direct exposure to fresh air and sunlight will greatly contribute to a burst of energy and focus.
Oh wow! I’ve noticed a definitely cycle to my creativity as well definitely correlated with stress. I’ve never thought about hormonal changes. I’ve recently started taking lots vitamins and keeping track of my motivation via a spreadsheet each day. No conclusions yet, but I’m curious to see what will show up
I'm the same, and it has kind of ruined me. No one I know thinks the ways I do. I keep wondering if it's just due to anxiety or a fear of death, or an inability to feel present or what. But I really wish I could figure this aspect of myself out so that I can relax and enjoy in a moment.
Whenever I realize that I was lost a moment, I get anxious about what I should be doing with my time instead.
I'm also like this. Some part of me feels that any moment spent not honing a skill / advancing in some way is a wasted one. I know it's a bs perspective, but still I find myself taking it constantly. I do manage to force myself out of this way of thinking from time to time, but it requires conscious effort to do so.
I imagine this forum has its fair share of people who fall for this "overachiever fallacy". I'd be curious to hear how others deal with it.
For the longest time I railed against the fact that I am mortal, and my time is finite. I wanted to squeeze everything I could into my days, and I would feel guilty about projects I didn’t get to. This is despite having a wife, kids, house, full time job.
Eventually I burned out on programming-based side projects. I switched to activities that do not require staring at a screen. So I build analog electronics, study music.
Then I had a heart attack. My mortality and the fragility of life was never more clear. I accepted that I could die, and let go of all the mental baggage I was holding onto.
I’ve felt ‘cured’ ever since. I don’t recommend anyone get a heart attack. But I do think people fall into patterns, and get stuck inside of them. Sometimes a “pattern interrupter” can break us out.
I had that mindset, but then an overwhelming amount of personal and work stress made me change. Unfortunately, as I wrote in a comment further up, now I feel like I’m too far on the other side, where all I do after work is relax.
If anyone has suggestions on striking a balance, I’d love to hear them.
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In terms of side projects, I’ve deliberately curated a smaller set that meets multiple criteria. Social connection, simplicity and elegance, and the ability to start and stop at will.
At work I am always looking for ways to do more than one thing at once. Learn a new skill. Teach something. Solve a small problem. Make myself feel good. Take the solution to the next level.
I think it’s okay to want to always be honing and advancing. Humans are always seeking lower energy paths. Maybe you just need to expand the scope of the skills you’re seeking. One of the most valuable skills in my work is the ability to stop and think about what I’m actually trying to do. That is honed through stopping and observing (meditation).
I'm in the same boat.
I'll say LLMs have influenced this for me. I've lost some part of what made programming "interesting".
Sure, digging through docs and finding small-scale workable examples to for boillerplate/whatever was never fun, but a lot of what drew me to programming was the wading into the unknown and the satisfaction of figuring things out (often even "chore" type things).
I'll keep looking for a new hobby, I guess.
Related, I feel like programming jobs are on the way out, one way or another (at least for me); programming recreationally had the side benefit of increasing marketable skill--this was never a primary or even secondary motivator for me, but now seeing as it's benefit in that realm seems far smaller, I've also lost motivation there.
Maybe I'll feel a bit better as the weather improves.
for me i figured out it’s about the body. it’s ok to be lifted up from the body into the thinking mind but i “owe” my body to spend some time there as well.
sometimes all it takes is sitting 20min in the morning just observing sensations in my body, and saying good morning to various organs haha. sounds silly but creates a solid foundation for my day.
Whenever I feel like I'm losing time, I go watch this and I feel much better
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZbfNtDCHdM
That's a very funny video! I'm curious to see if I can get my swim club to do something like this :-)
If you are very analytical, a good call is to learn a different way of being, call it “acceptance mode”
If you look at techniques employed from modern buddhism / zen, where you just learn to settle into present (breath, sensory experiences etc.) you can learn to shift your mind from analysis to acceptance modes.
You may have adhd. This is how I am. I can’t relax ever, I have to be constantly moving mentally or physically, I have to make the most of every moment. It’s an adhd thing, and medication does help with this. Worth getting yourself checked
Not to gaslight you but sometimes adhd isn’t adhd. My son can’t sit still and is this way. The more I watch it and talk to doctors and reflected on my own memory of youth I realize he’s basically my clone and I have all these symptoms too. Turns out it’s a motor sensory (muscle/balance) issue that he can correct with some occupational therapy and learned coping skills. I developed my own coping skills without a therapist and never really intentionally built my core strength.
Anyways I mention it because if one can focus on selective tasks, like working on a side project, I think adhd is perhaps an easy/lazy diagnosis but maybe not the correct one.
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The fear of death is a strong motivator (or demotivator), so that could be it.
Ever since I truly realised how I feel about dying, I have had to willingly put myself to take a break and play games once in a while. It gets better!
We have finite time, self-actualization through creation is very human. Too much passive consumption is sleepwalking through life.
However, creators often forget that mental exercise is like physical, you don't sprint 24/7 you have to pace intensity whether it's running or writing Clojure.
I'm in the same boat. Ever since I started working professionally, I was always praised for delivering first, and it shows in how I work. I'm a maker, I love to deliver. I have a few side projects as well, a few that are relatively completed and I haven't even deployed them, because they were just fun to build. Some are deployed, and I enjoy polishing them.
On the other hand, I remember that time you enjoy wasting is not a wasted time. I don't sleep well if I don't just chill and forget about the world, from time to time. It's like in the Sims. I aim towards my creativity and entertainment need bars to be filled. While coding, I often increase the fill of both bars.
Have you tried League of Legends or Valorant? I'm like you as I can't not have multiple side projects going on at any time, but at the same time there is so much room to improve in these kinds of game I find them hard to stop at times.
I'm somewhat the same way as parent, getting bored once I figured out the mechanics. While I haven't tried League of Legends, I have tried Valorant, and generally the type of games that is more about mastery of a skill rather than discovery, exploration, story or problem-solving, gets boring fast for me at least.
I get the same feeling that I'm "not being productive" while playing video games, watching tv, etc that seems to kill any enjoyment from doing these things.
For me learning piano has been a great alternative to programming in the off hours (typing is quite transferrable too!). Highly recommend if you're like me on screens all day.
> somedays I want netflix and chill.
I call them a zero day.
I wonder if it's always a zero day. I think that things and ways of thinking create momentum. The more you netflix and chill, the likelier you are to netflix and chill.
Yeah I definitely struggle with this. You need downtime to relax but it's easy to "over relax" just like it's easy to oversleep or overeat or overdo any other number of things that are healthy and necessary but only at the right amplitude and frequency. I think that's why it can feel so good to be in a rhythm. You get a nice oscillation going that rides the wave of momentum instead of some monotonic rise or fall that is going to lead to burnout or stagnation.
I wish I could be more like you in this regard. Perhaps you're right about the "creative hormone" thing.
How are your in the opposite camp of an article encouraging side projects when you say you have many side projects?
The author wrote about long periods of time when he wasn't encouraged to make anything creative, and just consume.
You're definitely not alone.
In my case it's somewhat of a learned behavior, a lot of my favorite video games make me violently motion sick so over time I just stopped playing them.
Most TV is pretty boring IMO. There's always exceptions but it's not something I find myself regularly being drawn to.
I'm always tinkering on something (a longtime favorite is gardening), and I'm pretty sure I'll always be tinkering until the day I die. Some of us are just wired differently.
Can be a little difficult to connect with the mainstream folks though. I pretty much live in a different world.
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This is how I am except with nostalgia content, which I cannot see as just content.
It is however impossible for me to play the latest games or watch the latest shows for 10 minutes without feeling like my time is being wasted.