Comment by ctkhn
10 months ago
Maybe I've been listening to too much YKS but I can't imagine buying a bike that required me to use an app and company's cloud to control basic functionality like that
10 months ago
Maybe I've been listening to too much YKS but I can't imagine buying a bike that required me to use an app and company's cloud to control basic functionality like that
I couldn't imagine buying a dishwasher that did the same... but somehow that happened.
There's no indication that functionality is hidden behind an app. You find that out after you get the thing home, set it up, and start using it (a lot of the time).
Bosch I presume?
This is one of few places where I’d like to sprinkle a little more government overreach in just the right way - to prevent manufacturers from walling clearly essential behaviour behind an app. That’s far too gray of a line for governments to handle, but I can dream.
I would settle for something like - "any network functionality in consumer devices must be open sourced and user modifiable"
It is probably too high a bar for most manufacturers, so they will not likely include such functionality.
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> That’s far too gray of a line for governments to handle, but I can dream.
I know that GDPR doesn't get much love, but I think that it shows that we (well, not we, because I'm in the US, but the EU) can meaningfully legislate issues involving intent and essential function. IA (obviously) NAL, but I see no reason that "those portions of the essential functionality of a device that do not inherently require the use of internet connectivity must be available without internet connectivity," or even the weaker "a device that is not usable without internet connectivity must be clearly signposted as such or be subject to free return at manufacturer expense for [some period of time]," wouldn't be a meaningful and enforcable law.
> Bosch I presume? > I would bet on that too. I have an older 300 series that is not WiFi and app enabled. It works great. I was suggesting "dumb" device models to someone and it was damned difficult to find which SKUs had misfeatures and which didn't. Same model, possibly same SKU (there are #s for different retailers), but two years newer had "smart" features.
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Like a sugar/fat/healthy label on food: enforce a clear sign on the package about each functionality that is too smart to be usable easily.
Needs some defining to get right (unanbiguous, useful, concise), but might be easier to realise than forbidding things.
Government overreach is the reason for this - no need to ask for more. If you believe in climate change, you will feel happy to 'save the world' by ceding control of your personal data and resources to the government.
The idea is that every resource is is monitored, the electric company's smart meters will report everyone's usage. This will then allow for fine grained control over your 'misuse', with carbon credits (taxes/fines) altering behaviour. 'Smart' everything is technocratic control.
Smart = spy.
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I really appreciate you, in particular, posting that here, because if Jeff Geerling can end up with an appliance with unwanted cloud/app dependencies, it's not a customer skill issue - it's a lack of candor from the manufacturers issue.
What possible advantage is there to controlling my dishwasher through an app? Why would anyone buy this on purpose?
Ideas off the top of my head if you link “smart” dishwasher to smart home.
1. Loaded dishwasher doesn’t run until Time-of-Use electric is off-peak.
2. Dishwasher runs after everyone has left for the day
3. Dishwasher runs after everyone has gone to bed
4. Dishwasher stops and drains if external water sensor detects leak (the inbuilt sensor/s don’t work for all types of leaks)
Are these worth it? Who knows. But it does have some uses.
If it used some standardized interface for communicating with the app, a benefit could be not being tied to it's physical interface if it breaks down or if you want to extend it's functionality. Unfortunately interfaces are the opposite of standardized or open right now.
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So after you have manually loaded it and put the soap in and closed it, instead of pressing a button to start it you can go through 6 screens and 25 clicks to start it!
That's progress!
That is what online reviews are for.
And oftentimes, download the user manual. If at all possible, I download the manual before making any purchase decision. It can answer questions such as: What’s included in the box? What cables/accessories will I need? Will the specs be fit for purpose?
User manuals are unbiased and usually a very accurate way to figure out lots of things about a product, especially something complicated and/or expensive, before purchase.
Unfortunately I have seen companies who are paywalling or purchase-walling manual downloads.
> Unfortunately I have seen companies who are paywalling or purchase-walling manual downloads.
This is itself an enormous red flag of its own. I would never buy any product from a company that has its manuals online but then makes it difficult to actually download them. That's a worse sign than the manuals just not being up at all.
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I loved (and hated... because 'enshitification') that video. Thanks!
> I loved (and hated... because 'enshitification') that video. Thanks!
What video?
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They hide this fact several times - while others advertise proudly, and idioticly -, true, but that is why I read the user manual before considering the purchase. Several of home appliances I browsed failed at this step.
Overcomplication works for masses, unluckily, they want to be thorougly amazed like in a circus at every cycle of washing dishes or what, and real engineers are a dying breed. Children put together shiny crap nowadays. While the motto should be: "A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."
My clothes dryer has this stupid touch screen interface and keeps reminding me that it can be controlled by an app.
I'm all: "So? I Don't want my phone colluding with the dryer and the garage door opener to overthrow me."
Don't be ridiculous. They won't collude against you. They clearly will have a turf war instead with each claiming that the TOS you signed by opening the packaging (the TOS being, of course, on the inside of said packaging) gives them exclusive rights to your entire being.
We have a shredder at work with a touchscreen. It is a shedder, basically just a motor and some rotating blades. But every time i use it i have to wait 30 seconds for the touchscreen to wake up. Totally useless.
I'm old enough to remember when shredders would just turn on when you inserted paper into them. No interface needed, touch or otherwise.
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I think I’ve told Gmail.com that 10k times in a row.
They will try again tomorrow though.
The dryer could tell the garage door to open, to reduce humidity.
Right? At some point we crossed a line where turning on a bike light became a "cloud event." Like… why does my transportation need a login screen?
YKS?
Probably the "Your Kickstarter Sucks" podcast. [0]
[0] https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/your-kickstarter-sucks...
yep - one of the best ones out there for the last few years
Is it possible the app wasn't advertised as required, but shown as a feature?
This is why I avoid anything that advertises as having an app. Whether it's adding huge latency to a volume change, using it for advertising or removing functionality entirely; the manufacturer simply has too much ownership over a product you've supposedly bought.