Comment by janalsncm
1 day ago
That is a much darker tone that I’ve ever thought of that passage in.
On a slightly related note, I think a lot of people today don’t realize when Jesus talked about the “Kingdom of Heaven” many of his audience heard that as a real, physical kingdom which would overthrow Rome. I believe Jesus also believed this, which to me is why Jesus’ dying words (“My God, why have you forsaken me?”) is quite literally an admission that his political project had failed.
> I believe Jesus also believed this
Jesus predicted his death several times, most explicitly in Matthew 20:17–19.
> Now Jesus, going up to Jerusalem, took the twelve disciples aside on the road and said to them, “Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and to the scribes; and they will condemn Him to death, and deliver Him to the Gentiles to mock and to scourge and to crucify. And the third day He will rise again.”
- Matthew 20:17–19
It is known that the specifics of the story were modified.
The current text is kind of frozen by its own similarities to itself.
The use of extracted quotes is probably a mistake. You have to find the same event in a lot of other books beyond Matthew to be able to find a tiny whiff of historical information, very faint, very difficult to do with translated versions.
> You have to find the same event in a lot of other books beyond Matthew to be able to find a tiny whiff of historical information
The same event is described in the book of Mark (10:32-34) and the book of Luke (18:31-34).
There are two other predictions that appear in all three books:
Matthew 16:21-23
Mark 8:31-33
Luke 9:21-22
Matthew 17:22-23
Mark 9:30-32
Luke 9:43-45
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Luke 17:20-37 also seems to support the idea that Jesus was trying to tell people the kingdom was spiritual, not physical. The kingdom as a concept wasn't some novel idea, either. Jesus was claiming he was the fulfillment of the messianic prophecy in Judaism. He was reinterpreting the prophecy, though, as a spiritual rather than literal liberation.
Tangential, but you can interpret the anti-christ in christian belief to bring the alleged kingdom, as a sort of anti-fulfillment of the prophecy.
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I’m assuming you read The Passover Plot?
A lot of related books a while ago that I’ve mostly forgotten. I believe it was called “How Jesus Became Christian” which mainly talks about the influence of Paul.