Comment by SkyBelow

1 day ago

So if I'm understanding this, there are two central arguments being made here.

1. AI Coding leads to a lack of flow.

2. A lack of flow leads to a lack of joy.

Personally, I can't find myself agreeing with the first argument. Flow happens for me when I use AI. It wouldn't surprise me if this differed developer to developer. Or maybe it is the size of requests I'm making, as mine tend to be on the smaller size where I already have an idea of what I want to write but think the AI can spit it out faster. I also don't really view myself as prompt engineering; instead it feels more like a natural back and forth with the AI to refine the output I'm looking for. There are times it gets stubborn and resistant to change but that is generally a sign that I might want to reconsider using AI for that particular task.

5 comments

SkyBelow

simonw 1 day ago

One trend I've been finding interesting over the past year is that a lot of engineers I know who moved into engineering management are writing code again - because LLMs mean they can get something productive done in a couple of hours where previously it would have taken them a full day.

Managers usually can't carve out a full day - but a couple of hours is manageable.

See also this quote from Gergely Orosz:

  Despite being rusty with coding (I don't code every day
  these days): since starting to use Windsurf / Cursor with
  the recent increasingly capable models: I am SO back to
  being as fast in coding as when I was coding every day
  "in the zone" [...]

  When you are driving with a firm grip on the steering
  wheel - because you know exactly where you are going, and
  when to steer hard or gently - it is just SUCH a big
  boost.

  I have a bunch of side projects and APIs that I operate -
  but usually don't like to touch it because it's (my)
  legacy code.

  Not any more.

  I'm making large changes, quickly. These tools really
  feel like a massive multiplier for experienced devs -
  those of us who have it in our head exactly what we want
  to do and now the LLM tooling can move nearly as fast as
  my thoughts!

From https://x.com/GergelyOrosz/status/1914863335457034422

skydhash 4 hours ago
> a lot of engineers I know who moved into engineering management are writing code again
They should be managing instead. Not to say that they can't code their own tools, but the statement sounds like a construction supervisor nailing studs or welding steel bars. Can work for a small team, but that's not your primary job.
- simonw 3 hours ago
  
  Hard disagree.
  I've been an engineering manager and it's a lot easier to make useful decisions that your team find credible if you can keep your toes in the water just a little bit.
  My golden rule is to stay out of the critical path of shipping a user-facing feature: if a product misses a deadline because the engineering manager slipped on their coding commitments, that's bad.
  The trick is to use your minimal coding time for things that are outside of that critical path: internal tools, prototypes, helping review code to get people unstuck, that kind of thing.
smithclay 1 day ago

This is also true of (technical) product managers from an engineering background.
It's been amazing to spin up quick React prototypes during a lunch break of concepts and ideas for quick feedback and reactions.

IshKebab 1 day ago

Yeah I think flow is more about holding a lot of knowledge about the code and its control flow in your head at a time. I think there's an XKCD or something that illustrates that.

You still need to do that if you're using AI, otherwise how do you know if it's actually done a good job? Or are people really just vibe coding without even reading the code at all? That seems... unlikely to work.