Comment by dfedbeef
1 day ago
The CEO of Tesla and Space-X; a self-proclaimed high IQ individual, an alleged programmer, has apparently hired a straight-up script kiddie to their elite delta force of technical government downsizers.
1 day ago
The CEO of Tesla and Space-X; a self-proclaimed high IQ individual, an alleged programmer, has apparently hired a straight-up script kiddie to their elite delta force of technical government downsizers.
You are discounting the possibility that he wants them to wreak havoc and cause the systems to fail. The Republican dream is for government to fail and be privatized. What better way for government to fail?
I hated Elon Musk long before it was cool: I was a fan of Tesla in the early days, and when I read Musk's "super-secret master plan" for Tesla I thought "yeesh, the board chairman is an idiot, where did they find this bozo?" (I knew a bit about SpaceX but somehow didn't make the connection.)
That said, I was surprised to learn much later that, by all accounts, Elon Musk was a competent and resourceful leader in SpaceX's early days. Maybe these stories are just his personality cult in action, but I found it plausible. It appears he once knew his place as an engineering manager, without LARPing as a Chief Engineer (he didn't appoint himself to CTO until quite a bit later). I worked for a really good manager who didn't know how to code, but he knew a lot about software and was very good about pulling back on coding things vs pushing forward on software design. It seemed like Musk was similar at SpaceX.
Which is all to say that celebrity is a helluva drug. I don't think Musk was ever an especially "high-IQ individual," and his first marriage suggests he's always been a misogynistic loser. But being anointed "a real life Tony Stark!" seems to have destroyed his brain. Ketamine probably doesn't help.
> That said, I was surprised to learn much later that, by all accounts, Elon Musk was a competent and resourceful leader in SpaceX's early days. Maybe these stories are just his personality cult in action, but I found it plausible
He's good at having and raising money which was what SpaceX needed, I think he was probably the same then as he is now. Reading about his early days at Tesla and the PayPal stuff, I don't really buy the idea he was ever different and took a dark turn. He's the type of person that will never self-regulate and somehow has never faced any negative consequences for lying and self-aggrandizing so has kept pushing it further
This is a frustrating comment. I said "I was surprised to learn" because I had the same impression you did, but then I learned something new. It seems like you're just rejecting my conclusion out of hand without bothering to learn anything.
Eric Berger's book in particular suggests that, before Falcon 1 was successful, Musk was much more humble and collaborative with the other early SpaceX hires, and typically deferred to their expertise. He was always reckless and megalomaniacal. But after Falcon 1 he became much worse.
Having an empty life full of sycophants and scammers sounds like a negative consequence. I have a bet with my wife that Tesla will go under within 10 years so we'll see how that plays out.
Um, as best I can tell from similar articles, they're all script kiddies.
Total HackForum vibes.
There is a phenomena I've noticed in this industry where people who lack a skill compensate by convincing themselves that they are a savant at seeing and exploiting that skill they lack in others. They find and encircle themselves with people who they believe are the Best of the Best, at least in their imagination, and it is critical for their ego that this is never challenged. They will be blind to any evidence to the contrary because they need the people they "identify" to be extraordinary, justifying their great people curation.
I mean, I guess this really happens in all industries. Art, music, leadership, software development. People who maybe once had credibility in something and now desperately try to foist Their People as the best in the industry.
I feel like that is what is happening here. None of the people who Elon surrounds himself are notable in any way, and their skills are hugely suspect, but he has to have his harem of "Super Coders" to prop up his own mythology.
I agree with the script kiddies comment- which is basically what the reporting has shown... but in a way isn't that part of the point? That they can save billions of dollars just by having a couple of relatively normal comp sci kids (who can't even rent a car) review the most basic financial information of our government departments. These guys aren't supposed to be "delta force" they are supposed to be the interns.
Not trying to defend the means to the end, but I would really like my tax money used more efficiently. I will also say am extremely worried about the levels of access that they are being given, especially since it comes with basically no accountability
Your comment assumes the conclusion that these comp sci kids were able to save billions while preserving the correct behavior of the system, i.e. if their changes cause even one person to miss one payment they should have received, then the rest of your comment is entirely baseless.
If you could prove that billions were saved in pure waste, then I’d imagine any sane citizen would agree with you, setting aside matters of decorum and human decency (e.g. RIFs that may ultimately be necessary but conducted in an inhumane way)
I’d like my tax money used efficiently, but this group does not merit the trust to carry out those changes, even on a technical level
At the VA medical system, they word-searched for "consulting" and cancelled contracts for.... surgical equipment sterilization, medical waste removal, stuff related to air quality that's required for hospital accreditation, and local burial services for people who die in the hospital.
Then a lot of those had to be reinstated because you simply can't operate a hospital without sanitation.
Just like they had to scramble to hire back the folks at the National Nuclear Safety Association.
Yeah, efficiency is great. But this is like ordering tacos and getting... a used tire and some dirty diapers...?
> I would really like my tax money used more efficiently
Except by most accounts so far it was being used efficiently by the federal workforce. This whole debacle will end up costing the US tax payer more money. See cutting the IRS or USAID which will probably lead the US to bailing out farmers. And if they privatize, then it'll be even more expensive.
I mean if they privatize USAID it’s a tremendous opportunity to loot on a scale we have not seen. Same thing if they privatize the IRS or Social Security. Think about all the money that could be invested in their friends’ enterprises out of the treasury float or the SS trust fund.
> I would really like my tax money used more efficiently.
This is immature thinking, because, who wouldn't?
The contention comes from differing opinions on what is waste.
A lot of people seem to consider anything that doesn’t personally, immediately, and directly benefit them to be a waste of their tax dollars. God forbid you use their property taxes to build schools their adult children don’t go to.
It's a manipulation technique. It implies that the opposition doesn't believe this.
> review the most basic financial information of our government departments
That is what the GAO is for https://www.gao.gov/ , and these people are much better than script kiddies.
> I would really like my tax money used more efficiently
Me too! You are on hacker news so I assume you are firm believer in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amdahl%27s_law ! If you would like your tax money used efficiently, are you willing to discuss cuts to social security, medicare, medicaid, veteran benefits, and whatever else is at the top of the budget? https://www.cbo.gov/publication/61181? What would you cut?
Personally, I would increase taxes on anyone making over $500K/year and stop nickle and diming our federal government so the US can actually become a first world country for everyone that isn't a software engineer.
> Not trying to defend the means to the end, but I would really like my tax money used more efficiently. I will also say am extremely worried about the levels of access that they are being given, especially since it comes with basically no accountability
This is like the derelict father with partial custody who parachutes in one weekend a month to buy his son ice cream and a new video game to leave two days later the conquering hero. Meanwhile mom works two jobs, has to set all the expectations and responsibilities for the child, and the father is late on child support payments.
DOGE blitzkrieged government IT. It'll be years before we understand the scope of what they've done and given available evidence: these are script kiddies who worship Musk, I don't think there is ANY reason for optimism or charitable consideration.
> I agree with the script kiddies comment- which is basically what the reporting has shown... but in a way isn't that part of the point?
I agree, but for a different point.
Generalising, but under the age of 25, most people don't have enough experience (business/government) to understand things such as business ethics, the consequences, auditing practises, privacy concerns, etc.
With professional experience, you develop a better understanding and build up that depth of knowledge of how things impact the wider "world" rather than the immediate task at hand. Meaning, you gain a better understanding of the ethical implications of what you're doing.
As an example - in law, it'd be easier to manipulate a law graduate than a lawyer with 20+ years experience, who would think outside the direct question or task that was asked.
People under the age of 25 generally work for older people - and that’s true of DOGE as well.
> a straight-up script kiddie
Why is the age such a talking point? An insight in startup culture is that the public underestimates young people, especially when it comes to business skills with objective results and tight feedback cycles.
It just seems like now that HN is skewed older we no longer believe that?
Script kiddie isn't about age, it's just a derogatory term for someone who never learned to write their own code, instead only slightly modifying and/or straight up running someone else's code that they don't actually understand very much.
It doesn’t seem entirely separate from age - as several other reply’s to this comment are about age.
I also think your description applies well to many startup founders.
> when it comes to business skills with objective results and tight feedback cycles
Is the federal government a business or startup? Does chainsawing it have a tight-enough feedback cycle to get good results? I'm going to say No to both, but I don't have the time or expertise to try to prove it. It can be true, both that young people are great at startups and bad at the federal govt.
It's not really about age. More about a specific level of impatience, maliciousness, inflated sense of skill and importance, and a general lack of integrity.
One could be a 60 year old skid.
> Why is the age such a talking point?
Young people get convinced to do stupid things that their older selves would regret.