Comment by 47282847
1 day ago
It’s interesting to muse about the larger picture here. What is it that makes autism so dangerous? To me it looks like part of an almost spiritual war against empathy/compassion by traumatized individuals trying to fight their own Jungian Shadow.
“I told you once that I was searching for the nature of evil. I think I’ve come close to defining it: a lack of empathy. It’s the one characteristic that connects all the defendants. A genuine incapacity to feel with their fellow man. Evil, I think, is the absence of empathy.”
Didn't someone recently mention that "The fundamental weakness of Western civilization is empathy"?
Sounds familiar...
There I had my money on infinite navel gazing while being completely unaware of the rest of the world
I didn’t know who that was, so googled. Apparently, Musk said that.
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That quote was massively taken out of context. His argument was that the west has too much empathy, not that empathy is bad, period. He even specifically prefaced that with saying that empathy is a good thing.
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It's crazy we got all those lessons figured out, clear as can be and right in the history books, that every kid is supposed to learn. And yet, here we are, back to square one.
As if most college students (never mind kids) know anything about history worth a dime? They couldn't tell you who did what to whom in WWII, never mind getting into any nuance. At best the majority misremembers some stuff they "learned" from movies.
Really ,did we ? The marching morons havw nukes now..
He said that because he couldn't empathize with those defendants...
This is the paradox of tolerance and it’s pretty cringe.
Conditioning is a powerful thing. I'm autistic, but my mother refuses to accept it, every 5/10 years she comes up with a new reason I'm not autistic, the latest one is that it's "hip to have autism now", hah. I think she thinks it's a failing of her parenting maybe, who knows, but the older I get, the more I realize lack of empathy does not arise spontaneously, but from repeated conditioning to mistrust empathy itself. When my mother wanted to be a special needs teacher, my grandmother couldn't understand why she wanted to look after "spastics".
My former best friend, despite having $100MM++ is paranoia about kindness, he theoretically should be liberate to express generosity, but his father taught him anyone being kind or receiving kindness is about someone taking from him. His father’s voice has become his own internal voice creating huge amounts of mistrust and suspicion, ultimately robbing him of any connection unless he paid for it directly, so zero meaningful connection.
>What is it that makes autism so dangerous?
In higher support needs, reduced autonomy (to the point of total dependency for ASD 3 cases), plus reduced social and intellectual capacity. Plus several commorbidities, in mental and bodily health.
It can be beneficial for society to have laser-focused and social-consensus challenging individuals with higher intelligence, but that's hardly the only or even the main way autism manifests - just the pop culture popular one (and the one whose members can more easily advocate for themselves, and present their cases as the sole representative, summed up in the "autism is a superpower" slogan).
Autists are just an easy group to target that can't fight back too hard.
It's just the next step on the escalation ladder. They'll come for all of us eventually
The administration's (and R party's) entire M.O. is now to find relatively small, easy-to-target demographic groups that can't fight back, exact cruelty on them to marginalize them even more or (in their view even better) stamp them out, and then go carve out another small, vulnerable group and repeat. We're going to see this pattern repeat over and over in the near future, and there will be many targeted groups.
That famous Martin Niemöller quote comes to mind:
First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me
If we don't aggressively fight this at every step, it'll be our turn eventually.
> When the Nazis came for the communists, I kept quiet; I wasn't a communist.
> When they came for the trade unionists, I kept quiet; I wasn't a trade unionist.
> When they locked up the Social Democrats, I kept quiet; I wasn't a social democrat.
> When they locked up the Jews, I kept quiet; I wasn't a Jew.
> When they came for me, there was no one left to protest
You’re really wondering why the administration that’s rejected habeas corpus, a right which pre-dates the Magna Carta in our system of law, is creating lists of undesirables?
Autists (and neurodivergent people in general) tend to think more freely and follow the crowd less than average.
I’d say they’re dangerous in the same way as librarians are dangerous.
RFK has been quite clear that autistic people are undesirables. They're collecting our personal information so that we can be imprisoned or killed.
He’s being incredibly clear that when he talks about people that have trouble participating in society, he is talking about the 26% of people with profound autism.
Online autism conspiracy theory channels turn this into some kind of eugenics purge.
> He’s being incredibly clear that when he talks about people that have trouble participating in society
Is that supposed to make it better? This distinction between autistic individuals who are productive and those who have trouble participating in society goes back to Nazi Germany where they sent the latter group to "reform camps" and "hospitals" to be murdered and eradicated. That's where the distinction of "Asperger syndrome" comes from.
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He's not being "incredibly clear" because he speaks about autistic people with one broad brush.
And in calling this "a conspiracy theory" and "some kind of eugenics purge", you seem to be intentionally downplaying the very real and very legitimate worries of autistic people, a group who has historically been subjected to eugenics purges in the past, which started using the language and rationale Kennedy espouses.
If Kennedy wants to be taken seriously and with good faith, he should put autistic people and experts in charge of this effort. That he doesn't speaks volumes about his true intentions.
Sorry if that sounds like a conspiracy theory to you, but autistic people like myself see the obvious parallel here and we aren't going to just be quiet and allow it to happen again.
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> Online autism conspiracy theory channels turn this into some kind of eugenics purge.
No, people in leadership positions have a duty to lead - justifying themselves and attempting to get buy in from everyone. Especially so on sensitive topics that we're societally squeamish about due to some very real historic horrors.
I know the memetic field is a bit hazy from the sensationalist media pushing divisive whole-cloth nonsense like Joe Biden is going to make you eat bugs etc, but there is a huge difference when that schizophrenia is actively encouraged from the top.
So this idea that we're just supposed to trust the Trump administration, when many of their actions have already been completely unhinged and senseless (eg huge tariff taxes), when Trump's last time at the helm was completely divisive and destructive, and when he's picked the most unhinged type of charlatans for his cabinet this time around? Sorry, trust needs to be earned - especially the amount required for pulling on rightfully sensitive threads - and they're not even doing the basics of attempting to.
This is like saying what makes cerebal palsy so dangerous. Why is trying to find out causes so dangerous? The dangers of empiricism in the 21st century.
In the UK, there are regions where 50% of children born in the early 2000s have special needs, and more children than adults are claiming disability benefits. It is going to have a very big impact on the labour market when 20-30% of these cohorts cannot work and, therefore, need to obtain income support from everyone else.
> It is going to have a very big impact on the labour market when 20-30% of these cohorts cannot work
"Cannot work" has more to do (imo) with the American Welfare Cliff where if you accept disability, you're forced to not have a job because if you make even a small piddling of money (it's something like $600/mo), you lose all your disability.
It's very disgusting, imo, and rejecting people's admission of a very real struggle they have because admission "does more harm than good" is, itself, harmful.
> It’s interesting to muse about the larger picture here.
I love the idea that, upon seeing the government compiling a database of undesirables under the pretense of fighting autism(?), one can zoom out and discover that the “big picture” is, uh, about autism. That is like watching The Sixth Sense and then writing about how it is a movie about the challenges of being a bald guy.
> The Sixth Sense ... a movie about the challenges of being a bald guy.
wow, am I going to have to go back and watch it a third time?
This is an interesting narrative. I think competition has something to do with it in our modern society. If I work at a company and someone is so competitive that I end up getting fired for whatever reason. I'm not going to all of a sudden care what happens to that person. Because they didn't care what happens to me. So you extrapolate this to the societal level, mix in the different cultural and clan ideological backgrounds of the occupants on the society and you can see how autism is a scapegoat for side effects of competition in many levels of our lives. Then you add the time dimension into the mix and yeah, maybe it looks like autism but maybe it's just, hey were all competing in many different ways and at some point. You stop giving a f*^k.
>What is it that makes autism so dangerous?
That the parents of severe cases eventually pass away and unless they figure out to take the kid with them, he is condemned at best to a life in mental health institutions - and usually they make One Flew Upon Cuckoo's Nest look like Teletubbies.
Add to that more and more people are single kids and usually born out of geriatric pregnancy (which also increases the chances of autism somewhat) - aka above 35, so they really are alone.
There are very good state and society interests in preventing autism. Mental disabilities are way worse than physical in today's society. Thankfully not every case is severe. But severe one's do exist.
Surely you can see that this isn't going to be about preventing autism?
an interesting book related to this discussion is "Speed of Dark" by Elisabeth Moon. It tells the story of an autistic person and their struggles while faced with the possibility of a "cure"
"Do not commit the sin of empathy"
“The fundamental weakness of Western civilization is empathy” — Elon on Joe Rogan
It’s a core tenant of this Curtis Yarvin / neo reactionary ideology that seems to be shared by a lot of VCs
The word you want is tenet
A tenant is somebody paying to lease property, for example if you have a landlord, you're their tenant, and by analogy e.g. an Azure tenant is an organisation within the Azure cloud with a unique identifier.
A tenet is a belief or principle that is important to some group, for example the IETF's Best Common Practice series are not just RFCs describing a protocol or technology but instead statements of principle such as BCP 188 "Pervasive Monitoring Is An Attack".
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"I believe in empathy, like, I think you should care about other people [...] empathy is good" — Elon on Joe Rogan
And then he cries on TV because people are not buying his cars.
Can't make that crap up...
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> “The fundamental weakness of Western civilization is empathy” — Elon on Joe Rogan
Also probably Nietzsche (not on Joe Rogan).
The previous silicon valley giants were to a large degree followers of Ayn Rand. This society selects, grooms and idealises a certain psychological profile.
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Fixing diseases and abnormalities in humans is empathy and compassion.
Some people considered being a jew abnormality and found their way to fix it.
We're moving same direction, mostly by people wishing for a strong arm, and being consumed by hate. And it's definitely not empathy and compassion in play here.
> Some people considered being a jew abnormality and found their way to fix it.
They were wrong. Does that mean that human developmental abnormalities don't exist and we shouldn't be looking for ways to prevent them? Of course not.
I can't believe you're making me defend RFK, but characterizing this as being motivated by "hate" is completely absurd. RFK is a kook, but he's a kook motivated by compassion and empathy. His entire career has been driven by compassion for people affected by environmental poisons. And the people in his camp are crunchy granola parents who can't analyze statistical data, who are grasping at straws trying to find out why their kid has a developmental abnormality that science doesn't have a ready explanation for.
Are you referring to the Trump government's treatment of trans people?
RFK views autistics as undesirables, so it's absurd to believe that he'll be any nicer to us.
> “These are kids who will never pay taxes, they’ll never hold a job, they’ll never play baseball, they’ll never write a poem, they’ll never go on a date, many of them will never use a toilet unassisted,”
What makes more sense is that he's collecting our personal information for imprisonment and execution.
> RFK views autistics as undesirables
>> “These are kids who will never pay taxes, they’ll never hold a job, they’ll never play baseball, they’ll never write a poem, they’ll never go on a date, many of them will never use a toilet unassisted,”
This is true of people with severe autism. I know someone whose autism is severe enough she'll probably never be able to live independently. Doesn't everyone view that medical condition--the condition, not the person--as undesirable? Doesn't everyone view being healthy as better than being unhealthy?
I have ADHD. I'd rather not have ADHD. I take a pill every day to control it. My kid has it too. He'll have to take a pill every day for the rest of his life. I'd love to avoid that outcome. Avoiding disease is a good thing!
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The problem is not fixing diseases. The problem is what is defined as a disease or abnormality. The problem is people who are clearly choosing abnormalities based on politics, power grabs, and anti-science rhetoric.
Science and medicine is what has defined autism as a disease or abnormality. Science and medicine are telling us that the rates of these diseases are growing dramatically, for decades now.
RFK isn’t the one who made autism concern happen. My three year old’s teacher asked us to get him tested with the county for autism. It’s a very common thing parents are dealing with these days. I’d argue that what you’re saying is exactly backward. The medical community has defined a lot of normal behavior as autism.
Now, I agree RFK’s views on what’s causing autism are anti-scientific, and I doubt he’ll be able to figure out what’s causing it. But RFK has a platform because the medical community has diagnosed all these kids as autistic but doesn’t have an explanation for what’s causing it. So looks like RFK fill the void.
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