Comment by nottorp

2 days ago

So, since the host is mac os, you need to run a linux VM to be able to quickly instantiate a mac os VM?

With Apple's RAM prices?

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nottorp

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frabonacci  2 days ago

Not quite, there's no need to run a Linux VM on macOS just to spin up macOS VMs.

Since the host is already macOS, we leverage the Apple Virtualization Framework (Vz) directly via a lightweight background service (lume). The Docker container (Lumier) acts purely as a frontend and delivery mechanism for managing and launching VMs — there's no nested virtualization or Linux VM involved.

That said, you're absolutely right that macOS hardware isn’t cheap, and RAM can be a real constraint. If you're running multiple VMs or aiming for production-scale setups, options like Scaleway’s M4 Mac minis or EC2 Mac Metal instances offer more headroom.

Also worth noting: while Lumier supports virtualizing Linux VMs too, if your use case is only Linux, there are far more cost-effective options using KVM on Linux hosts.

RobMurray  2 days ago

Docker does seem to be an unnecessary overhead considering it's reliance on a Linux VM. What does Docker bring to the table that couldn't easily be replaced with a native Mac app?

  • frabonacci  2 days ago

    Totally get your point. Docker isn’t about performance here. It’s just used as a management interface to connect to VMs running directly on the macOS host via Apple’s Vz. We went with this approach for Lume because Docker offers a familiar, automation-friendly workflow—great for CI, AI agents, and bundling things like noVNC

  • nottorp  2 days ago

    That was my point, and that was the Linux VM dependency that the OP doesn't realize exists.

    Also there's some permanently running service. What's the point, to save 30 milliseconds out of the time to set up a VM which is certainly measured in tens of seconds?

    • frabonacci  2 days ago

      The primary benefit here is automation and ease of management, especially for CI or AI agent workflows, rather than saving tiny amounts of time on VM setup. Docker's role is to offer a consistent and familiar management interface, which can be useful for automation and scaling, not for shaving milliseconds off VM boot times

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