Comment by kmarc
16 hours ago
> how simultaneously stern everybody looks with no fake smiles or hidden gazes. People were willing to just stare at something or somebody odd
FWIW, the fake smiles and hidden gazes, to me the least, were always a North American thing.
In fact, in Switzerland we have its opposite, the infamous "Swiss stare" :-)
Super interesting. I recently learned that a lot of foreigners moving to Germany find that Germans are staring. It’s called the German stare. I wonder if staring is a Germanic thing.
https://www.zeit.de/campus/zeit-germany/2023/01/culture-face...
Pro tip for everyone else: start counting with your thumb.
For some reason I don't quite understand, my pinky and ring fingers don't operate well independently of one another. This is an issue when counting on my fingers (or attempting a boy scout salute), so I've started counting 1,2,3 from the thumb, 4 with the thumb down and all four fingers up, and 5, of course, with all digits extended.
(I could start counting at my pinky, but that just makes me look totally nuts)
Edit: If you read the article the comment I replied to posted, it includes thumb first counting as one of the cultural differences people experience when visiting Germany - in addition to the "Germanic Stare" they specifically mention in their comment. Consider actually reading before assuming I'm just typing nonsense - unless responding to titles and comments without reviewing the content they contain is a cultural difference I need a guide to get used to when visiting Hacker News.
The pinkie and ring finger share a tendon - this is why they are weaker than the other fingers.
Or, at least that’s how it was explained to me as a kid learning to play the double bass. The standard technique is to use those two fingers together to press the string on the upper part of the fingerboard where the most strength is required.
I've started counting in a very weird way, because from an open hand, I can bring my ring finger down to my palm independently, but if I try to bring just my pinky down, the ring finger comes along from the ride.
So when I count, I start with a closed fist, then open my thumb, followed by my index finger, then middle, then pinky, then ring finger.
American smiles in photos are mostly not fake, fwiw.
You will never convince Europeans of this. They simply seem to be unable to grasp that (1) cultural norms about introversion/extroversion and friendliness are not universal, and so the default baseline IS more outgoing, social, friendly, and extraverted in North America, and (2) because of the other differences in service industry culture [not necessarily themselves all positives but nevertheless relevant], the service industry in America optimizes for extraverted and friendly people.
So yeah, when the super friendly waitress comes over and asks the table "how is your day going", they're not forcing a smile for a tip. It helps, but they're most likely naturally outgoing and friendly and genuinely curious.
When you grow up with this environment, moving to Europe is adaptable (have done so), but whenever you go back home it is a breath of fresh air.
It is incredibly surprising to be told to smile when taking official photos in the US. I just couldn't understand the first time it happened at the DMV, the person kept saying "smile" and i'm like, wtf, why would i smile, this is an official photo for my driver's license.
That’s interesting. I’ve been told every time (so far) to keep a “neutral face”. I smiled once and the guy let out a heavy sigh and made me take the photo again (Redwood City, CA DMV).
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It’s not a requirement, just a suggestion. The most i ever got was “say cheese!” once at one of my DL renewals, but that was it.
In the US, I had to take photos for driver’s license at least 4 times, for green card 1 time, and for passport 1 time, not in a single one of them I am smiling. Saw the DLs of my friends more than a few times (either at bars or clubs or while crossing the border or when the topic arrived naturally), and the breakdown of smiling vs not smiling is 40/60 at most (with a heavy lean towards not smiling)[0].
I partially agree though about the US being a bit special in the aspect of even just allowing people to smile in ID photos. In the previous country I lived in and where I had to take ID photos, it was explicitly prohibited to smile in those photos, and they would reject applications if someone did.
0. Purely anecdotal, as it could totally be the case that I just accidentally ended up befriending mostly those who don’t smile for ID photos.
Whereas here in Iowa, smiling is forbidden in DMV photos. I guess it's state by state.
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It is not often that a photo is required of me for some ID, so I believe the MVD here in Arizona has got two photos from me in 26 years. If I recall correctly, the instructions were "smile if you prefer to." My expression is cheerful but not overly smiling; I'm wearing a full beard, and the photo has been converted to monochrome - why, I have no idea.
However, the camera used at MVD is clearly more sophisticated than it appears, because if you install the Mobile ID app, your photo goes full "Harry Potter mode" and animates in a 3D rotation!
I don't recall any directions about my expression for the US Passport photo at the USPS station. However, they did attempt to reject the photo for strange technical reasons. I could not fathom the rejection because the photo had been entirely handled by the professional USPS clerk and I wasn't involved in generating it. I insisted on submitting exactly the same way a second time around and it was approved. It must've been a procedural glitch of some kind. Or the government knew I shouldn't be traveling to an ill-fated vacation, and was trying to gently dissuade me?
I actually don't like his tone in the article. Why should the Swiss even care what is perceived as rude other countries, staring or whatever? There's this common view that immigrants from poor countries should adapt and integrate, but if they're from western(er) lands they get to judge?
they're tourists and treat the places they visit like human-zoos