Comment by wpietri
5 days ago
>if respectable people with no stake in selling AI like @tptacek or @kentonv in the other AI thread are saying similar things, you should probably take a closer look.
Maybe? Social proof doesn't mean much to me during a hype cycle. You could say the same thing about tulip bulbs or any other famous bubble. Lots of smart people with no stake get sucked in. People are extremely good at fooling themselves. There are a lot of extremely smart people following all of the world's major religions, for example, and they can't all be right. And whatever else is going on here, there are a lot of very talented people whose fortunes and futures depend on convincing everybody that something extraordinary is happening here.
I'm glad you have found something that works for you. But I talk with a lot of people who are totally convinced they've found something that makes a huge difference, from essential oils to functional programming. Maybe it does for them. But personally, what works for me is waiting out the hype cycle until we get to the plateau of productivity. Those months that you spent figuring out what worked are months I'd rather spend on using what I've already found to work.
The problem with this argument is that if I'm right, the hype cycle will continue for a long time before it settles (because this is a particularly big problem to have made a dent in), and for that entire span of time skepticism will have been the wrong position.
I think it depends a lot on what you think "wrong position" means. I think skepticism only really goes wrong when it refuses to see the truth in what it's questioning long past the point where it's reasonable. I don't think we're there yet. For example, questions like "What is the long term effect on a code base" take us seeing the long term. Or there are legitimate questions about the ROI of learning and re-learn rapidly changing tools. What's worth it to you may not be in other situations.
I also think hype cycles and actual progress can have a variety of relationships. After Bubble 1.0 burst, there were years of exciting progress without a lot of hype. Maybe we'll get something similar here, as reasonable observers are already seeing the hype cycle falter. E.g.: https://www.economist.com/business/2025/05/21/welcome-to-the...
And of course, it all hinges on you being right. Which I get you are convinced of, but if you want to be thorough, you have to look at the other side of it.
Well, two things. First, I spent a long time being wrong about this; I definitely looked at the other side. Second, the thing I'm convinced of is kind of objective? Like: these things build working code that clears quality thresholds.
But none of that really matters; I'm not so much engaging on the question of whether you are sold on LLM coding (come over next weekend though for the grilling thing we're doing and make your case then!). The only thing I'm engaging on here is the distinction between the hype cycle, which is bad and will get worse over the coming years, and the utility of the tools.
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So? The better these tools get, the easier they will be to get value out of. It seems not unwise to let them stabilize before investing the effort and getting the value out, especially if you’re working in one of the areas/languages where they’re still not as useful.
Learning how to use a tool once is easy, relearning how to use a tool every six months because of the rapid pace of change is a pain.
This isn't responsive to what I wrote. Letting the tools stabilize is one thing, makes perfect sense. "Waiting until the hype cycle dies" is another.
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> You could say the same thing about tulip bulbs or any other famous bubble. Lots of smart people with no stake get sucked in.
While I agree with the skepticism, what specifically is the stake here? Most code assists have usable plans in the $10-$20 range. The investors are apparently taking a much bigger risk than the consumer would be in a case like this.
Aside from the horror stories about people spending $100 in one day of API tokens for at best meh results, of course.
The stakes of changing the way so many people work can't be seen in a short term. Could be good or bad. Probably it will be both, in different ways. Margarine instead of butter seemed like a good idea until we noticed that hydrogenation was worse (in some ways) than the cholesterol problem we were trying to fight.
AI company execs also pretty clearly have a politico-economic idea that they are advancing. The tools may stand on their own but what is the broader effect of supporting them?
The stake they and I were referring to is a financial interest in the success of AI. Related is the reputational impact, of course. A lot of people who may not make money do like being seen as smart and cutting edge.
But even if we look at your notion of stake, you're missing huge chunks of it. Code bases are extremely expensive assets, and programmers are extremely expensive resources. $10 a month is nothing compared to the costs of a major cleanup or rewrite.
Dude. Claude Code has zero learning curve. You just open the terminal app in your code directory and you tell it what you want, in English. In the time you have spent writing these comments about how you don't care to try it now because it's probably just hype, you could have actually tried it and found out if it's just hype.
I've tried Claude Code repeatedly and haven't figured out how to make it work for me on my work code base. It regularly gets lost, spins out of control, and spends a bunch of tokens without solving anything. I totally sympathize with people who find Claude Code to have a learning curve, and I'm writing this while waiting for Cursor to finish a task I gave it, so it's not like I'm unfamiliar with the tooling in general.
One big problem with Claude Code vs Cursor is that you have to pay for the cost of getting over the learning curve. With Cursor I could eat the subscription fee and then goof off for a long time trying to figure out how to prompt it well. With Claude Code a bad prompt can easily cost me $5 a pop, which (irrationally, but measurably) hurts more than the one-time monthly fee for Cursor.
Claude Code actually has a flat-rate subscription option now, if you prefer that. Personally I've found the API cost to be pretty negligible, but maybe I'm out of touch. (I mean, it's one AI-generated commit, Michael. What could it cost, $5?)
Anyway, if you've tried it and it doesn't work for you, fair enough. I'm not going to tell you you're wrong. I'm just bothered by all the people who are out here posting about AI being bad while refusing to actually try it. (To be fair, I was one of them, six months ago...)
I could not have, because my standards involve more than a five minute impression from a tool designed to wow people in the first five minutes. Dude.
I think you're rationalizing your resistance to change. I've been there!
I have no reason to care whether you use AI or not. I'm giving you this advice just for your sake: Consider whether you are taking a big career risk by avoiding learning about the latest tools of your profession.