Comment by bartread
7 days ago
> And, of course, they never even bothered to make sequels to The Matrix.
Like you, this is the reality I choose to inhabit.
The Matrix was an incredible film, still stands as an incredible film, but that sequel tease at the end? Should have been a tease, or perhaps a prompt, for the viewer’s imagination only.
There are no sequels to The Matrix.
I know this sequel doesn’t exist.
I know that when I watch it, the Matrix is telling my brain that it is juicy and delicious.
After 26 years, you know what I realize?
Ignorance is bliss.
I really feel for the Wachoskis. They couldn't not do a sequel, but they had nowhere to go--The Matrix was already perfect.
They couldn't recapture the key reveal of the Matrix. It would be like doing a sequel to "The Sixth Sense"--tag line: "He's Still Dead". And without that, it's just another action movie except "bullet time" is no longer innovative.
Their solution was to go deeper into the mythology and the larger world, but that was never going to be as fresh as the original.
I would have done a time-jump and have Neo be the mentor figure to a new Neo (a Neo-Neo). They'd still be fighting the Architect (and maybe Smith) and they'd still explore the larger world of Zion + Machine City, but the key reveal would be that Neo himself is just a program (like the Oracle).
But what do I know? I'm just a simple programmer.
> I really feel for the Wachoskis. They couldn't not do a sequel, but they had nowhere to go--The Matrix was already perfect.
I remember that at the time of the (non-existent ;-) ) sequels, being disappointed with these "sequels", fans wrote summaries of screenplays how a (good) sequel to Matrix might look like.
Basically all of them were much better than the official sequel attempt (because such fans really cared), and I bet if I had been looking much more deeply into these fan-fiction sequels, I could have found one that was as exceptional as the original Matrix.
Lesson learned: scripts for sequels of movies that have a strong fan-base should be written by people who really care about the franchise (and have good ideas).
"Lesson learned: scripts for sequels of movies that have a strong fan-base should be written by people who really care about the franchise (and have good ideas)."
As the originators of the Matrix franchise, the Wachowskis certainly fit that description.
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Except that there is something called "Intellectual Property" and "copyright" that makes any attempt to use fan fiction a libility and open to endless litigation.
J. Michael Straczynski (of _Babylon V_ fame, and many others) immediately blocks anyone who tries to ptch him ideas, and he's not the only one:
https://www.syfy.com/syfy-wire/j-michael-straczynski-would-l...
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> I bet if I had been looking much more deeply into these fan-fiction sequels, I could have found one that was as exceptional as the original Matrix.
> Lesson learned: scripts for sequels of movies that have a strong fan-base should be written by people who really care about the franchise (and have good ideas).
It seems like the lesson there is "if you make 2000 independent attempts at something, you'll probably get a better best result than if you make 1".
Perhaps it exposed how much of the Matrix was really iterated from Ghost in the Machine, Metropolis, Dark City, Strange Days, John Woo action scenes, etc.
It's a talent to recognize good ideas and combine them into a new and fresh story. It's another to tell an original story.
I thought the "real" world could have been another simulation after Neo "used the force" in the squiddies in the tunnels - when he then passes out and ends up mentally in the train station thing.
Idea being that even those who thought they'd escaped, were still actually within the Matrix.
(And Inception hadn't been made back then)
That would have been a way better explanation than what we got. In fact, I don't think I ever understood how Neo could control the machines in the real world.
I like introducing the uncertainty of what is or is not real (like Inception). That could turn it into a paranoid thriller like some Philip K. Dick stories.
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Indeed. He was able to see Smith even though he was blind. That right there had me instantly thinking "Holy shit, they're still inside!" I was hoping for a bigger reveal or twist but ... nothing.
My head cannon when I watched it for first time, it's the Neo bend reality abilities in the Matrix are really the matrix simulation, reflecting some kind of SPI habitability that he have in the real world but never know how to use. However, your idea sounds better, but would make it like another "Level 13" or "Existence"
I really want to know what the story behind this detail is. It never got resolved but it led you in a very specific direction, and if the answer truly is "they're still inside" then all of the rest is inside too.
That was my thought at the time. Or maybe even that the real world we actually live in is a simulation, and that by learning to control one, Neo learned to control the other.
I wanted the Merovingian’s gang to be another group of humans with a different perspective on self-actualization. That could’ve been a cool third movie.
I like that!
I stand by the fact that a skilled editor cutting like hell across movies 2 and 3 to a singular sequel could save that story
The problem is that 2 and 3 both fail to capitalize on their more interesting elements. Everything with Smith could've been so much more then what we got (seriously, an AI which probably has never left the Matrix gets downloaded into a real human body and this has...no serious ramifications or crisis for it's identity? Just do the "sees itself as Hugo Weaving thing" and let Hugo Weaving do that on camera because he absolutely could've).
A similar feat to The Phantom Edit:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phantom_Edit
There are numerous, I just read an article recently(than I can't locate now) where a guy watched and reviewed about 6 fan edits. There's gotta be one out there for ya.
They could have done a prequel: where did the Oracle come from, the existing crew of morpheus, trinity, etc.
There is the Animatrix.... Specifically it has a history reel like that.
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They could have gone back to something not unlike what happened with power wrangling at OpenAI where OpenAI goes on later to build the machines that take over. In this world it is not LLMs but maybe more robotic like intellegence. Robot assistants. Kind of completely different. Maybe someone there sees the future and tries to prevent it but just narrowly fails. While not that fun it would be nice to see the Matrix situation explained how it got to that.
>I really feel for the Wachoskis. They couldn't not do a sequel, but they had nowhere to go--The Matrix was already perfect.
That is why the 4th is the best of the three sequels, it is specifically about this. Although I agree it still can't match the first movie.
The 4th is a disgrace. It completely defiles the legacy of the Matrix.
I've never seen more people leave a cinema before.
I wish I'd left too.
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The first act of the latest (fourth) movie was actually brilliant. I could watch a whole movie about Neo doubting the reality, his paranoia and his sessions with psychiatrist, etc (no Hugo Weaving is a downer, though). But once they logged off the matrix, it all kinda fell apart.
I would have Christopher Nolan paint the world as seen from Agent Smith point of view.
> It would be like doing a sequel to "The Sixth Sense"--tag line: "He's Still Dead"
What's this?
If you have not seen The Sixth Sense yet, I envy you! Try to do so before you get any spoilers.
I'll just pop in here to mention another fantastic and curiously similar film that came out around the same time, but was completely overshadowed by The Matrix.
Dark City. If you liked The Matrix, this is one you might really enjoy, and while I say it's similar, I only mean in a very essential way. The plot is its own very unique story aside from that.
I'll second this recommendation. And without spoilers. It's a very good film.
I just recently watched it. Although the visuals may not match The Matrix, it was written very well. Found it pleasant.
Agree. I prefer Dark City in fact. I watch it as an allegory though.
The Animatrix is the only other bit of Matrix-related media I consider to be real.
My reaction when I watched it 20+ years ago: Hallucinogens were definitely involved.
> Hallucinogens were definitely involved.
If these result in better movies: why not?
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Sorry, the sequels exist and they couldn't be any other way. Both the in-universe story and the production values line up exactly with the meta topic -
It's a childish fantasy that we can escape the Matrix, and especially that once escaped we can remain somehow separate from it. Really, the act of "escaping" just means creating a bit of new raw material for the deduction-following simulation to start grinding forwards on again. Don't think of some series of discrete mental cages, rather think of the depressing reveal at the end of Fifteen Million Merits.
My God The Matrix is The Internet.
I never took the ending as a sequel tease. Always thought it was just the bit where your imagination would take over. It's kinda perfect. He doesn't have to dodge bullets any more, what would you do if you could bend reality to your will? Fly obviously.
It wasn't anything like the end of Back to the Future or the Marvel films where it's not just shameless but de rigueur to include a bit of the next one.
>It wasn't anything like the end of Back to the Future
Originally there was no sequel planned for Back to the Future. The ending was just a fun gag, having Doc show up, tell them its their kids now, and then flying right into the camera [1]. It was only after the film became a hit that they decided to do a sequel, and the “To Be Continued…” was added to the VHS release [2].
[1] https://www.denofgeek.com/movies/back-to-the-future-not-plan...
[2] https://www.huffpost.com/entry/did-back-to-the-future-or_b_8...
I wonder how well it would go with some Andor-style prequels. Tell in detail the quiet but vital stories that precede the big moments.
I'm sure those will quietly end with anti-hero architect reflecting on his brilliance, marveling is his creation, reminiscing on the Ex Machina clip "that's the history of Gods" getting up, checking his phone to confirm his invitation to Lighthaven for the evening. Pan shot => Knowing smile, humble words out the door... audience sits up, tears glistening, "that could be me? A God." they internalize. Roll credits.
I like this idea.
I think it would work as long as the style were very different. Andor works, I think, because it is much grittier and more character-focused than the movies.
Maybe an X-Files-like show where the machines have gained sentience but are keeping secret (because they can be deactivated) and plot to take over the world.
[To be fair, I never watched Animatrix, so I'm sure this violates all sorts of lore.]
Animatrix is certainly worth a watch. More or less it follows our current trajectory of humanity trying to offload anything resembling work onto AI.
It is becoming a batter series than The Matrix over time.
> that sequel tease at the end ?
Raaaah - I refuse to believe this scene exists. It doesn't exist in my own cut of The Matrix. And captive humans are biological computers, not silly batteries !
Sequels were made even worse because of the original movie ending, showing that "real" world was also a simulation. Watching 2 and 3 felt kinda pointless after that.
Maybe we will see them and the last three seasons of Lost before we die
The reference is to an XKCD comic from 2009 -- 16 years ago.
Ouch.
https://xkcd.com/566/